Marc A. Alpert ’86

Marc Alpert

Sat, Jul 15, 2023 4:27PM • 00:01:00SUMMARY KEYWORDS

work, law school, law firms, general counsel, school, classes, ub, buffalo, people, wonderful, love, students, lived, years, career, graduated, m&a, mentor, firm, instilled

SPEAKERS

Marc Alpert, Aaron Saykin

Aaron Saykin 00:02:00All right, let's start at the beginning, Mark and tell us a little bit about where you grew up and what kind of family you grew up in.

Marc Alpert 00:03:00Sure, happy to. So I grew up, born and raised in the Canarsie section of Brooklyn, working class neighborhood, a real melting pot. I like to say I grew up in a sitcom. And we had a lot of interesting characters. We lived in a row house. I lived with my parents, and my two brothers and their first floor and my grandparents. And for the first 16 years of my life, my great grandmother on the second floor, so it was a nice, so it was a nice close family and, and a very, you know, hard working family. And it was a very, it was a very valuable child. And I think that was very instrumental and making me who I am today. How so? Well, you know, my father was a was a supermarket worker, he worked, he never drove, he was a little hot air. And he worked in in Washington Heights, he took three trains and a bus to work. I used to love to work with him. He was by far the hardest working person I've ever known in my life. While he we didn't talk about world affairs, or, or school or things like that he, through his example, he taught me about the dignity of work, and how you know, the importance of work. Having my grandparents upstairs was a real blessing. My mother also worked my mother was a legal secretary, actually. And my grandparents, I was very close to them. My grandfather was a woman, and my grandmother was a smart one. She would answer all the Jeopardy questions when Jeopardy was very difficult. And when we would play boggle she loved to read, instilled in me a love of reading. So it was, you know, I worked myself since the age of 13. real jobs. So it was you know, it was a very, I look back with very fond memories. And I think it was very important and instilled a lot of values. My you know, my father, he's actually my stepfather. He married my mother when I was three, but I always called him my father, the most honest, hardworking person I've ever known.

Marc Alpert 00:04:00And he, it was very, it was a very fun, fun and loving place to grow up.

Aaron Saykin 00:05:00You mentioned working since the age of 13, real jobs. You know, I get the sense for a lot of people who have gone on to have very successful careers that those jobs in their very early years, appreciating the value of hard work was as instrumental to their trajectory in life as was their education at school. Right? Was that the case for you?

Marc Alpert 00:06:00No doubt about it. My first job I borrowed my brother's working papers and got a job at Carvel, which was right down the block. I worked 40 hours a week at the age of 14 1314. I did well in school, as well, not as well as I could have because of the work. And then I year later I got a job a couple of blocks away at a drugstore local drugstore. And I actually worked there all through high school, college, even law school when I came home for spring break or summer breaks. When I was working at my summer job in law school, I would work there on the weekends, they would let me work any hours I could. And I'm very appreciative of that. It definitely. It definitely instilled in me a work ethic. And, you know, an ambition I think is well. You know, I didn't want to do certain things. When I when I graduated that I had done for so many years.

Aaron Saykin 00:07:00Where did you go to high school mark.

Marc Alpert 00:08:00So I went to high school at a place called South Shore. It was a fairly new school when I went there. It since closed down because it was so dangerous. They actually instilled in still installed metal detectors. Here after I graduated. There were riots and it was it was that was not a good place. I tell the story. People don't understand this. I never went to the bathroom in high school. Nobody did no one I know did you were afraid to be in the bathroom. After gym. You would rush like crazy to get the next class because it was it was so dangerous. You don't want to be the hallway. But you know we went when the bell rang. So but uh, but at I graduated I graduated that school in two and a half years. I actually we had a program in Brooklyn called the SP program. And so I skipped eighth grade. And that was cool. A two out of 10 classes did that. And then in high school, I graduated in January. So I was just 16 When I started college. Wow. And I

Aaron Saykin 00:09:00saw from your resume, you went to Hofstra. What was that like starting there as a 16 year old.

Marc Alpert 00:10:00So I actually started at SUNY Buffalo, believe it or not. And in the January I went, I went to SUNY because of the price. And I was young and immature, and I had a roommate there who was a drug addict. And I didn't deal well with it. I actually left a little bit he, after about a month, came home and had to find a college. It was, you know, it was cool it March of my senior year, and I was already graduated. So a friend of mine was, was going to Hofstra good friend. And I went there with him. And I met with the financial aid office. So they made it the same as Sunni for me. So I was able to go there. That was I had a wonderful experience to undergraduate I grew up tremendously.

Aaron Saykin 00:11:00Even at that young age, that must have been difficult, right to be a couple of years to three years younger than some of your peers, or did it not feel that way?

Marc Alpert 00:12:00You know, it never felt that way. I don't recall ever, ever having an issue with that. I love school. It was the first time I lived away from home. It was only you know, Brooklyn to Long Island. There's that very far, but we didn't have a car. So, you know, I was staying there and living there. And it was it was a wonderful experience. I have a lot of incredible mentors that I met at Hofstra who were incredibly instrumental in my development and, and going to law school, too.

Aaron Saykin 00:13:00You mentioned before your mother was a legal secretary, she was you grew up did that have anything to do with your decision to go to law school?

Marc Alpert 00:14:00You know, I don't recall. Possibly, she worked for a single practitioner, oil and gas guy in the Empire State Building. I certainly enjoyed going with her to the Empire State Building when I was a kid. I loved social studies. I loved debate. I loved history. That's what I really enjoyed. And so my grandfather upstairs was a very practically he he immigrated from Austria. Very practical guy insisted that you had to do something where you can get a job. Matter of fact, in college, I had this crazy idea I wanted to major in economics. And I was paying for everything myself from college is all on me. But he you know, I guess it intimidated me. He insisted that I major in something which was practical. So I changed SEC accounting. And I I knew I wanted to go to law school, so I didn't think much of it. But it was more of a my academics in college were more of a trade school, although Asher, to its credit, requires hefty hefty credits a liberal arts, which, which I really enjoyed.

Aaron Saykin 00:15:00How did you choose UB, for a law school.

Marc Alpert 00:16:00So I applied to two schools, I didn't have much money to apply. I applied to Harvard and UB. And my thought was, if I got to Harvard, I figure out what to do. And UB being the state law school, you know, I knew it was a great value. I got into UB, I didn't get into Harvard. And I remember talking to one of my mentors, she Dr. Maureen Murphy, she was a dean of advisement. And I was considering going to UB or working a year as an accountant, I had that background, and then maybe applying to some other Ivy League schools. And she really convinced me that like half sure a school is what you put into it, you have you know you'll be had a very good reputation. That, you know, it really didn't matter. I'll tell you later water that does matter. A little bit for the career that I chose. But I also then I applied for and got a job as a director of a residence hall at UB. And so that was a great job. And once that happened, I said this this makes a lot of sense. This makes a lot of sense. And so it was it was really a full time job. Although there was a lot of time downtime where you could do reading. So with a perfect job for Washington. And I did that on the on the Main Street Campus a good year hole the first year and then they called it to try it. Very cold Pritchard McDonald and Sialkot. I remember that. Yes, well, three holes. And there were small, small buildings. He had all three. And I live in Prichard Hall and it was a great job. I think I paid 5000 a year. Got the free apartment. did not a room it was an apartment and the roaches were free.

Aaron Saykin 00:17:00We'll leave that part out of your acceptance speech.

Marc Alpert 00:18:00I will they live rent free. But we felt that problem. I remember that was a big problem. For a couple a lot of it was all it was all I lived on a floor with all freshmen undergraduates. So they like to bring that microwaves that weren't allowed.

Aaron Saykin 00:19:00I'm sure. Tell me about what it was like first coming to Buffalo, you got a kid from Brooklyn, who I mean, he spent some time in Albany. But you know, going from from Brooklyn or even Long Island to Buffalo is a bit of a culture change is was a nod.

Marc Alpert 00:20:00I remember being thrilled during my orientation, to be at law school. I don't remember what we had a couple of couple of first had to come early for orientation for the residents job. And so I got to meet a lot of people, you know, really graduate students. And some folks actually were professionals. There were some dorm directors who that was a full time job. So I had a couple of weeks to meet a lot of interesting people and you know, get to know them. And then I remember starting the law school orientation, and I was just so thrilled to be in law school I had, I was about as unsophisticated and naive as as a student could be. But I still remember that really exhilarating feeling of starting law school. It was the professors were fabulous. I loved it. I it was just a lot of reading. And that's that's the kind of the difference between undergrad and law school, you keep up with your meeting, you're fine. And so I love the classes. I love the exchanges. I my professors were like, I wrote my thank you note that I would put up the UB professors against any any professors of the country. They would just, you know, world class. And I feel that way as I started practicing at big law, I was really prepared as as prepared as anybody from an Ivy League school, which most of my colleagues were.

Aaron Saykin 00:21:00Were there any professors in particular that made it a real impression on you? Oh, yeah,

Marc Alpert 00:22:00many, many. Professor delicato at the accounting background and kind of knowing I wanted to do business law, I took four classes with him. He was tough. He was fair, and he was fun. And as much as I knew him very well, when I was interviewing my third year, I told him I had to miss a week because I had interviews in New York City. He said, we're not we're not a Career Center. This is the university. Of course, he didn't hold it against me. I loved him. He was he was a just a fantastic substance. Professor, Professor, others, Professor Joyce, I took a few classes with Professor Olson, who became the dean of the school after I left toward Cipro. I thought he was amazing. Professor Gillen, I had him his first year at the school. He was he was in his first year. It's a criminal law. And then a third year ARCHIE MILLER class with him. Just fabulous. Professor Carr, Professor Larry. It's gonna it's gonna go down the list. There just just there was so many excellent professors who were engaging and prepared us. They were they were tough. There was not I don't I don't recall any classes, which which didn't have serious academic rigor.

Aaron Saykin 00:23:00In terms of the social aspect, sure, of law school, you know, I hear from a lot of people that they've met some of their closest friends in life in law school. And was that your experience? Did you were there any classmates that you stayed close with over the years?

Marc Alpert 00:24:00So one was that a classmate? Actually, he was a dorm director with me. guy named Bob Nelson. He was at the time going for his post doctorate degree. He had about three masters and a doctorate degree in microbiology, and he was going for his postdoc. And so he was a dorm director over in Clement the next hole over on Main Street. And he went up I went to law school many years later. I think he worked at your firm for a couple of years a Hutchins was and then he went, he lives in North Carolina now and he's one of my best best friends.

Aaron Saykin 00:25:00What was the what was the experience like in law school? Were you one of those guys that you know was in the library most days I can imagine because you work hard but did you get to sort of enjoy some of the social aspects of being a law student as well?

Marc Alpert 00:26:00I did. Now I didn't I wasn't around O'Brien Hall all that much because I took the bus in the morning from Main Street I have that. You noticed the bus shuttle every day and then after classes I'd have to go back to Main Street to we had hours we had to sit in the in the office or at night we were in duty many times. You but a few of my classmates in law school like I jobs is always in my buildings. And we certainly nights I wasn't on duty. I had plenty of fun down. We used to go to boys by the by the old the old the hockey arena. I remember Garcia's Irish pub, which is no they're not there anymore. I remember court court daddy's and and at the Marriott in Amherst they had a really great bar at the time. So yeah, we had I had a very good time with socializing with graduate students who were dorm directors in other fields. And then the few are three or four, Ras who were my colleagues in law school who, who lived on the Main Street Campus or close to the mainstream campus.

Aaron Saykin 00:27:00Or, Mark, we've been talking a little bit about your experience at UB law. Were there any other individuals who made sort of a lasting impression on you while you were there?

Marc Alpert 00:28:00Yeah, Audrey Casoliak(?) and Audrey was the head of the career services. I think she did that for many years. You know, our class was was far larger than today's classes. I think we had three sections and about 8085 students. And she seemed to know, each student what their career aspirations were, and work closely with them. If you if you wanted her services and sought her out, she was delighted to help. And I didn't know anything about the type of law firms or anything about big law for that matter. And, and Audrey introduced me to the big law jobs. I had good grades, I was not on Law Review, because I never applied because I had to go back to Main Street, I had a full time job. So with her guidance, my my mother actually a legal secretary, there was no word processing, typed about 400 letters for me, literally 400 letters at two large, larger medium sized law firms in New York. I got about 10 or so interviews and, and six offers on my third year. And but that's a lot of rejection. But Audrey worked very hard with our students. If you were willing to, to take her advice. She got a lot of us jobs. She did a great job. And I'm I'm very indebted to her.

Aaron Saykin 00:29:00Let me ask you this. You said you apply to you know, all of the, you know, a lot of large New York City firms. Was that your goal? To be back in New York, in one of those big buildings on top of the world so to speak?

Marc Alpert 00:30:00Yeah, look, at the time again, I was naive and unsophisticated. We were told by by the New York firms, they do the most cutting edge work. I was familiar with New York, obviously. I was. I was I had my girlfriend in New York, who became my wife actually got engaged after my second year. We got married after my third year. So she was going to start working at Arthur Andersen, who's no longer with us. And, and so for personal and professional reasons. I focused solely on New York and I applied not only to the big law firms, but also lucky to medium sized law firms. I had again, I had no idea what the difference was.

Aaron Saykin 00:31:00And you ended up I think going right away to Chadron and park.

Marc Alpert 00:32:00I did. I did. And I would like to tell the story that Chad Borden was a very old line what they call a white shoe firm. But they everybody was different. I remember there's one for a while I'll leave on named for bigger name. I thought everyone had the same haircut. They work the same way. They talk the same way. It didn't feel right. At threadborne. I interviewed literally with JP Morgan's grandson, guy named Pope Neuer. And you know, a real patrician guy. And right next to him was Bill KALISE, who became one of my rabbis at the firm. He had a shirt out very unkept hair. Very unpolished, I'd say. And it just impressed me that if those two guys can work next to each other and get along, this must be a fun firm. And I did find it and fun. I mean, you know, diversity of thought, diversity of backgrounds. Like most big law firms, most people would double IVs I think I was very fortunate to graduate in 1986 when the m&a market was booming, and so if you had good grades at Buffalo and New York Law School and Brooklyn Law School, you can get a job at Big Look, but But by far the majority of my class was, you know, had one or two IVs on their resume.

Aaron Saykin 00:33:00Is that kind of a badge of honor for you? Right now that that that you've done what you've done and didn't need those IV degrees? Well,

Marc Alpert 00:34:00I think it's a it's a badge of honor for Buffalo. Because I think buffalo is a is a real unknown gem. Like I said, and I sincerely mean it, I was as prepared as anyone there. My you know, with incredible professors, if you know, it was, I really think I had as good of a good as good, if not a better education than anyone who went to Harvard or Yale. It was a bit of a chip on my shoulder, to be honest with you. I always felt I had to prove that I belonged. And that lasted for a very long time. So, you know, I was, you know, it was it was, I took little personal pride, but I really, I think there's more more to be said about the schools that I went to. And it's really, you know, it's what you put into it. And if you're willing to, you know, to do the work and take it seriously, it doesn't matter where you went. And, frankly, there was many of ivy league students who were fired or couldn't hack it. You know, what don't have the common sense or the, and I gotta say this about buffalo students, generally, because I'm involved, mentoring a lot of buffalo students and trying to get them jobs in big law in New York. And I find the same thing. And the word I think of all the time is grit, determination, a sense of a sense of hardwork. And I tell them all when they already prepare their interviews, don't ever be negative about buffalo. Don't ever be defensive about it, ever. You know, I help them craft the answer. And last year, I am proud to say that three of the women happen to be women that I mentored are all going to get jobs got jobs at big law firms for the summer. And one, one a is now coming down this year for her first year.

Aaron Saykin 00:35:00Oh, congratulations.

Marc Alpert 00:36:00Yeah, it's wonderful. I'm so excited about that.

Aaron Saykin 00:37:00When you went to chatburn, were you in the m&a group? Is that what you were working on? That's what you were doing primarily tell us a little bit you know about your practice and how it evolved over time.

Marc Alpert 00:38:00So one of the things I didn't know then being so naive, that I got to got to learn was Chad Bourne was a medium large firm. At a lot of the very large firms. You do finance, you do m&a, you do capital markets, Chad one, I did public company work. And I was head of the public companies practice group for many years. And so there was kind of three legs to the practice. One was m&a. We did a lot of m&a, mergers, acquisitions, I did a lot of spin offs, just happened to have clients who were doing a lot of spin offs. Capital Markets, we did all kinds of debt, and equity raises IPOs convertible debt, high yield debt. And then the third leg is the corporate governance SEC advice, where you're kind of a trusted adviser to the board to senior management and to in House lawyers on disclosure issues. Regulation, FD, proxy statements, activist shareholders, a whole host of corporate and securities matters. So it was a very varied practice and frankly, incredibly interesting. I enjoyed the variety.

Aaron Saykin 00:39:00I see on your resume that you spent a year in Hong Kong.

Marc Alpert 00:40:00I did.

Aaron Saykin 00:41:00How did that happen? And what was it like?

Marc Alpert 00:42:00So I was a senior associate. And I had done a little work with a project finance department, which really was corporate work in a specific industry. We had a very big and strong and to this day, they have an incredible energy practice. So it was project finance, energy. And the head of that practice, asked me to help him start the Hong Kong office. It was a brand new office. Mile only real travel at that time was work travel. I worked the other part of big law we could talk about later is the hours it takes, but I had not traveled much. I went home to my wife we had a one year old daughter at the time. And I said I had the software it's funny. And she said that's so funny. She went to Blockbuster and got a VCR tape on hunch i We watched it And she kind of initiated that she pushed it. And it was fantastic. It was just a traveled all throughout Asia. It was a great experience. I was supposed to stay there for three years. And one of the partners who I'd worked for him back in New York, left to become general counsel of a company called Rockwell International. And he was one of my rabbis. And he wanted me to come back to do a lot of the m&a work that Rockwell was about to undertake. So I went up all the staying a year. But it was one of the highlights of my career. It was a lot of fun.

Aaron Saykin 00:43:00And then you became a partner there after nine years? 00:44:00Right after I came home and seven years. Wow, I made partner actually the year early. Just lucky timing with it. Like I said, my mentor going to client.

Aaron Saykin 00:45:00What what do you impart attribute your ability to I think climb through the ranks? You know, so quickly in so successful, you mentioned hard work? And what you learned from from your father? Is that at the core of a lot of what you've done? Absolutely,

Marc Alpert 00:46:00absolutely. At the core, I think, look, clearly you have to, you know, get it I always say to young associates, you know, sometimes it takes six months, sometimes it takes a year or even two years, but the light bulb goes off, you will understand this, and it will come together, it's a puzzle. And I think it happened for me like other stuff is gonna save timing. But I was willing to work very hard. They had a very captive individual and me. And that I was, you know, the, the deals, the the lifestyle is frenetic, it's nights and weekends. I enjoyed it. I enjoyed my work. And so I you know, wasn't, wasn't that hard. My wife who's just an unbelievable person is very independent. She did everything with the kids. She was wonderful. She supported my career. And you know, we went to Hong Kong together. That was really interesting. But you know, she was my best asset and business development. Because we would go out with people, and she's got such a wonderful personality. And so, yeah, hard work. Common sense is another thing. And I think that's the other quality that I noticed in a lot of buffalo students. They just, they just, I can't tell you how many brilliant Ivy League people I've met, who just don't understand just some basics. And so coming, it's a combination of hard work, determination. And, and I think if you don't love what you do, you just kept with the hours. So you really have to enjoy it. Life's too short.

Aaron Saykin 00:47:00Alright, so mark, you spent 30 years in private practice really reached near the pinnacle of your firm and that profession. And then you gave it up. You went to the Lowe's Corporation. Tell us a little bit why a little bit about why you did it. And what it was like?

Marc Alpert 00:48:00Sure, happy to. So I read I was a corporate lawyer very close to my clients. And I had the opportunity over the years to join them as general counsel, I had actually three or four offers. For some reason, coincidentally, by clients, we're all in the Midwest. So buffalo is not as cold say, as Cedar Rapids, Iowa, where I spent a lot of time, Milwaukee, Wisconsin, and Detroit. Chicago. So I was offered General Counsel jobs, at various points of the 30 years that I always said no, because my kids weren't at the right age to move at one point when I was interested in. And I love the idea of working for one client. I always say you take ownership of what you do. But how can you take more ownership than working for just one client? That always appealed to me in the back of my mind. There comes a time in a law firm, usually about, I don't know, 15 years, you're in 15 years. What you really have to become a business generator. And so I transitioned and I did. I didn't love that part of the job. I really enjoyed practicing law. And so I was thinking about general counsel opportunities. And matter of fact, in 2000, in the end of 2016, there was going to be an opportunity in Milwaukee, one of my clients and I was for probably going to get that job. And I was ready to take it. My kids were now out of the house. We were mobile. And I was preparing to take that. We moved into the city, we lived on Long Island, actually for 30 years, where we raised the kids, two kids. And two days later, I got a call from a recruiter at Russell Reynolds about the lowest job. Now Lowe's is controlled by the Tisch family. We're a public company, a public holding company. And the tissues have a wonderful reputation in New York City, that philanthropist they're known to be good people. But they're billionaires. And I obviously come from a different background. And so I thought, how much fun would it be to meet that? So I figured, let's go and see how it goes. And I had several interviews, and I told my wife each time, these are down to earth, hardworking, really wonderful people. And we seem to hit it off. I was a finalist, they gave me a test, they called me in, they gave me a kind of a subject matter to talk about something they had been advised on by outside counsel. And I've met him and it was it was wonderful. And so when I was offered the job, I said, what a great opportunity to take this job stay in New York City, not have to move to Milwaukee. And work for a really interesting company, because it's a holding company. But we have subsidiaries, a public subsidiary and insurance sub, in Chicago, we have an energy sub, we have the hotel subsidiary, and we have a packaging company. So there is a variety with one client. So I've been here now seven years. I love it, it was a fantastic move, frankly, the hours of faultless, which is not a bad thing, if they're working so hard for so many years. But I really enjoy it. And the days go fast. I get to participate in you know, obviously, I'm part of senior management and part of the senior management team. We have meetings daily, talking about strategic decisions and, and initiatives. And it's been it's been just a fabulous. Second acting like you're

Aaron Saykin 00:49:00you had mentioned before that you even though you're not with a firm in private practice anymore, you still mentor people who are transitioning into that phase, right, from law school and to that career. What I mean, I know every student is different, but what what advice do you give them?

Marc Alpert 00:50:00So So one of the benefits of being a general counsel in New York City, is I work with a lot of law firms. So my contacts now, and also working at Chapman for so many years, I have a lot of really good contacts at my age, at many of the big law firms in the city. And so what I do is I open up my contacts, to desert to deserving students. Now they clearly have to have good grades. That's, unfortunately, that's just the price of admission to big law these days. It always was. But, you know, most of the people that I work with are hungry to come to New York, big law, they want the experience, whether they want to do it for their life, or just, you know, as three or four years to get that great education and then go somewhere else. You know, I don't judge doesn't matter to me. I help them with their interviews, I help them with their resumes. And I gotta tell you, when they get jobs, I'm just as happy as they are. It's very rewarding. And I've asked them all just I asked them one favor, after they get their job. And I said, when you're a fancy lawyer at this big law firm, pay it forward. When you get a call from an up student, take the call, mentor them help them. And they will have to Z ethically agree to that.

Aaron Saykin 00:51:00I wanted to close to talk about I think, probably the most important part of somebody's professional journey, which isn't at work. But but at home. Talk about your family, just in general. And then we can talk a little bit about some of the sacrifices you've made for them.

Marc Alpert 00:52:00Sure, I could talk about your family for as long as you'd like. My wife is just amazing. She's absolutely beautiful inside and out. She's just an amazing person. I met her when she was 19 and I was 20. We were married when she was 23 and I was 24. I often say Thank God I married her when she was nine You've because I never would have been so lucky. We have two kids. My daughter is Kara, she's, she's 31. Now as she went to Wash U in St. Louis and then immediately moved to Los Angeles, having her sights on Hollywood career. She's now an agent that at the United talent agency, she's worked very, very hard. And is a source of a lot of joy. And, and it never ends with children even at 31. But, but I'm very, very proud of her. equally proud of my son. He's 28. He went to Northwestern, he studied film. Both their parents were accounting majors, I guess. We went to 20 movies of Broadway shows they both had an interest in the entertainment industry. Upon graduation, my son worked for the wrestling industry, the WWE II, for three or four years, he traveled the world, when all over the world with them. And now he's back in school pursuing an education degree. And he lives in Brooklyn. So I couldn't be prouder of them. They they're the source of incredible pride for me.

Aaron Saykin 00:53:00And I know, to reach the heights of success that you have, as a private practitioner now, as a general counsel, that meant sacrificing time with them. That must have been the hardest part.

Marc Alpert 00:54:00It was difficult. I think, you know, you get used to your, say your bathwater. My father wasn't around much when I grew up, because he worked seven days a week at the supermarket. And he had a very long commute. So he spent, you know, 1213 hours away from us. My brother was, was handicapped, he had cerebral palsy, and he was deaf. And then many surgeries. And when my brother had surgeries, my father would work at night at IHOP as a waiter. So he was he sacrificed far more than than I did. But I grew up without a safety net. And it was very important to me to give my kids a safety net to help pay for their colleges which, and give them a feeling of security, security. It's not nothing financial, it's that security that you that I didn't have. And so I would do it all again. My wife was always there, she decided, due to my work schedule to give up her career. She had a very promising career. She's voluntaries instead. And has a very fulfilling volunteer career. But she didn't she really did all the all the heavy lifting. But we say I couldn't sing or dance or play centerfield for the Yankees. So I did what? You know what I thought came naturally to me. And I also said all altruistic to my kids, I very much enjoyed what I was doing.

Aaron Saykin 00:55:00Is there anything I didn't ask you or have a chance to ask you that you wanted to mention that popped into your mind before we before we wrap up?

Marc Alpert 00:56:00Yeah, I do I want to talk about it's always the people. So at my age, when you look back at law school and college or your career, you forget the bad things, right? You always remember the good things, which is a really wonderful part of human nature is you tend to remember that the happy times, but I have so much gratitude to you be to Audrey caselle NiaK, to my wonderful professors, for preparing me, I didn't know a thing when I got there. Honestly, I didn't know about big law I didn't know about I knew I wanted to do something in business because that was ingrained into me from my my grandfather and relatives, but I knew nothing. And they really prepared me as good as anybody and, and I have such gratitude. I really do. And I think you know, I really enjoy now paying it forward and mentoring young students. But I can't tell you the debt of gratitude and the thanks that I have to the people and so it's about the people