Lillian E. Cowan '27

Segment Synopsis: Irish and German descent; Parents, Grandparents born here. HS--Lafayette; UB--directly to law school; Undergrad degree not required; took social service classes at night. 3 years in law school Bachelors of Law degree. 1 living brother 87 years old. Father in home construction, Riverside area of Buffalo; Mother ran a beauty shop in home. Musical family, grandparents professional musicians; accomplished on piano as a child. Anecdote of hand being too small to reach/play octave. Why Law? Great Uncle a lawyer; mother wanted her to stay here; impressed by the legal profession, interesting.

Keywords: Anecdote; Ethnicity / Diversity; Family; Graduate / Professional Training; Grandparents; Occupations; Other Relatives; Role Models; Specialized Training

Subjects: FAMILY HISTORY

Segment Synopsis: Discrimination against women in law? Shocked to discover differences arriving at Townsend Hall. 10 women in class; Family supportive of law school decision; Family paid for education. Other role models? No; Expectations of law school--get a job and be a lawyer; was 17 when started. Branch of law? Law not always exciting but it is always interesting because it was about people. Not hard to get into law school for her. Seemed easy to meet requirements. Stayed in Buffalo because of family; wouldn't have minded leaving town but mother wanted her to stay here. Reputation of UB law; all UB professional schools outstanding, received much praise on medical and dental schools; law school always had good name. Location of law school; Freshman class in Townsend Hall--extra large class of 200. Law school had classes downtown instead of Main Street campus. Advantage of being employed as law clerks while a student. Did not hold a job while in law school; social life. Sophomore year at Eagle Street address across from County Hall. All classes held there; attendance declines after first year; class composition. Attendance drops off; Classes much smaller; Takes bus to school from Potomac and Richmond to Eagle Street. 200 hundred in class; 10 women; other classmates; women classmates all different types of people, some older, some younger; Five continue and 1 joins class--6 women graduate; describes female classmates; camaraderie. Dean Alden did well to increase visibility/reputation of school.

Keywords: Application process; Attrition; Caliber of Students; Career / Professional Experience; Class Composition; Deans; Discrimination / Prejudice; Eagle Street Campus; Employment / Jobs / Wages; Experience as Student; Faculty / Professors; Family; Financial Support; Graduate / Professional Training; Law Students; Legal Community; Perceptions; Practice; Reputation; Social Life; Student Culture; Townsend Hall; UB Law School general; UB Recruitment; Women and Gender

Subjects: UB LAW AS STUDENT

Partial Transcript: "If you want to be a lawyer, you should have an interest in people..."

Segment Synopsis: Close bonds with other women lawyers, not necessarily in class; strong organization work; two law sororities at UB, national organizations; member of Kappa Beta Pi about 10-15 members; joined in law school; Phi Delta Phi other sorority; Attends conventions all over the country and met other female lawyers; social and educational component. Toronto had a large chapter, prominent law school; was important because they "talked the same language." Not a co-ed environment; men's organizations not eager for female membership--didn't seek women out. fondest memory of law school; enjoyed the work, was happy to get good marks; favorite classes were those dealing with people. Least favorite? patents and other remote dry subjects. [BREAK IN TAPE] court room exposure? Attended prominent cases in court when possible; no moot court or law review. Perception of academic success and success in career? depends on person; "If you want to be a lawyer, you should have an interest in people..."; not the profession for people who don't like people. Faculty member mentor? no; did have women lawyers that taught leads, became friends. Became acquainted with older women lawyers later. 1st women law students, Judge Wiener, Helen Z.M. Rodgers, took an interest in young female students and encouraged them; recounts Rodgers reputation, other women lawyers at Moot, Sprague; a generation up on other female lawyers. did not serve as a mentor after law school to other female students--Depression hits.

Keywords: Academic vs. Career Success; Associations / Societies; Career / Gender; Career / Professional Experience; Classes; Great Depression; Intellectual Tradition; Law Courses; Law Faculty; Legal Education; Mentors; Peers; Trial Practice; UB Academic Advisors; Values

Subjects: CAREER: GENDER; UB LAW AS STUDENT

Segment Synopsis: 1930 Depression, worked as legal researcher then as a welfare worker, visited homes of those applying, write review of homes receiving welfare. Did this about 4 years. Left casework to go to new division created by county to care for needs of elderly on welfare; 1st law job? civil service exam as clerk in city court; many clerks worked in city court almost all were young lawyers; knew some from law school; worked there until married in 1940. Never worked for anyone again; worked out of home, 1st year had daughter, 5 years later had son; in home office. Areas of law practiced? moved to Kenmore, ran practice out of home, active in children's lives/activities; law was also practiced, enjoyed flexibility; hard to maintain professional attitude with children underfoot. Husband very supportive of career; husband was an engineer; daughter teacher at Hutchinson Tech, passed away in her 50's; son ensign in the Navy; 5 grandchildren. After husband dies, becomes more active in law. Attends seminars to stay current; self-supporting as needed; supplements income.

Keywords: Accomplishments; Advice; Career / Early; Children / Grandchildren; Employment / Jobs / Wages; Great Depression; Occupations; Practice; Satisfaction; Spouse; Tax Law

Subjects: CAREER: GENDER; PERSONAL ISSUES

Segment Synopsis: Was never told she couldn't have a job because she was a woman; when she got out of law school, women were not in demand; 1st law firm she worked for was because her father brought in a lot of business. Didn't learn very much, ran errands. Worked for various lawyers; given tasks due to gender; [loud pause on tape]; people were not as accepting of women as lawyers. How did get clients? do a good job and word of mouth will increase business; sometimes given more credit because of woman; trying today to set pattern not to discriminate against the elderly; Remembers one young lawyer that inferred she was too slow because of her age. Hard to get work; make work jobs in WPA--men were paid to stand in the street and lean on shovels. Make work for lawyers, woman colleague head of program to create white collar work for lawyers; mortgage and tax foreclosure work; traces evolution of title insurance because of inappropriate notification of owners in foreclosure. Decides to go to business school and works as a stenographer for attorneys while an attorney herself; was making more than clerks at that time; male clerks looking to serve papers to supplement income. Advice for lawyers? tax work was something everyone needed. Advice to lawyers con't: Income tax lawyers, know the field, laws and stay current; mind-boggling changes in tax law. does a bit of estate work, must be current on changes in tax codes to serve clients; recommends a good accounting course; be alert to taxation relates to other fields as well.

Keywords: Advice; Career / Professional Experience; Discrimination / Prejudice; Employment / Jobs / Wages; Gender; Government jobs; Great Depression; Law Firms; Perceptions; Practice; Tax Law; Values; Women and Gender

Subjects: CAREER: GENDER

Segment Synopsis: Contact with UB Law; Almost graduated her, honored her as a senior woman lawyer, for number of years and never quitting; Doesn't see her career as particularly spectacular. Never retired; recommend? depends of family; works with many elderly clients--sees what to expect; recommends retiring with husband; would have retired if husband lived; husband supports her by staying in area for her practice; loses two of her "girls"from her office to retirement, husbands retire. Anything advice to pass on to students? Has seen many changes in law. Stay current on changes in law. Involvement in organizations, active in early law orgs. the "Counselors" and national law sorority; met women from Europe, South America; brought other women lawyers into her scope; Women Lawyers of WNY, Women's Bar Association, great supporter but less active today. Joined Zonta 50 years ago, service organization, scholarships and community projects; Active in church; work with children; Interclub Council of WNY founded by Madge Taggart, clubs belong not individual members. Susan B Anthony Award presented to outstanding women; she received award in the 1970's. Advice: Community participation counts and offers a good return on the investment of time. Some legal work through club membership, but community service was motive for service

Keywords: Accomplishments; Advice; Associations / Societies; Career / Professional Experience; Community Involvement; Practice; Quit; Retirement; Service; Tax Law; Women and Gender

Subjects: PROFESSIONAL EXPERIENCE