Hon. John T. Curtin '49

Segment Synopsis: In foundry business, worked with railroads, traveled around; worked at Gould Coupler in Depew; Dad was only child; able to attend Canisius High School; went to work at Gould Coupler and Lackawanna Steel; becomes foreman; serves in Calvary unit, sent to hunt Poncho Villa in Mexico; then serves in WW I as artillery unit--battery commander in 106th field artillery; returned to Buffalo to Lackawanna Steel. Mother from Buffalo--east side. Parents had memories of attending the Pan Am Expo in 1901; Mother went to work at 15 at Lackawanna Steel as clerical; Three brothers, JC oldest, Joe (deceased) Engineer, grad from Cornell; Dan Dr., local orthopedic; Jim, Dr. internist in Washington, DC; Importance of education, all attended Canisius-good preparation; Father con't at Bethlehem Steel, retires in fifties and passed away in his 90's. Worked summers at Bethlehem; considered engineering school had preparation in classical education--Latin, Greek; left school in 1942 because of WWII

Keywords: Buffalo History; Family; Grandparents; Occupations; Siblings; Undergraduate Education; Value of Education; World War II

Subjects: FAMILY HISTORY

Segment Synopsis: Navy flight training, flew with Marines mostly backwater areas; was in Guadalcanal, Emu Island, Philippines, Mindinou, Samuanga; Returned and went to law school; Graduated in 1946 from Canisius College and entered law school in Sept.'46; Thinks today he would be a conscientious objector; The Marine Corps/military service taught him many things--discipline, organization, dealing with others, superiors; combat missions, ferreting out Japanese in Philippines and strikes against Japanese in Solomon Island. At end of war returned to school. Why law school? While in Navy flight training in Minneapolis, met a lawyer that let them use his car, very engaging guy that piqued his interest in the law. Always been interested in politics; FDR as president, Depression, role of government; Parents interested in politics, supported Alfred E. Smith; disillusioned by the disloyalty of politics. Thoughts of law school? considered medical school but was too long an education, was 24. Based on conversations of lawyer in Minneapolis and the fact law school was only 3 years. Glad he chose law.

Keywords: Career / Military Service; Choice of Law; Family; Graduate / Professional Training; Great Depression; Specialized Training; UB Law School general; Undergraduate Education; Value of Education; Values; World War II

Subjects: CAREER: MILITARY; EDUCATION

Partial Transcript: No man should go into practicing of law unless he had the wherewithall to be able to practice and not exact fees from any client.

Segment Synopsis: Why UB? Had been away, was homesick; glad to be in Buffalo, lively community, friends and family. UB was do-able, Law School was on Eagle Street--convenient for him. Lived at home to save money; entered law school in '46, grad '49. Dean was Louis Jaffe, taught Torts; 1st class was with Jaffe; tells of there being no set rules with Jaffe--why this way or that way? why not other way?; sciences had rules to comply with. Hard for some students to deal with; started with 100 students; after 1st year much drop off; older students interested in getting out/started in life. Dean Alden taught real property, subtle rules. Bill Laidlaw taught personal property, lived in Ellicottville, commuted by train; prepared for class, read, correct papers while on train ride. Great quote about Dean Alden--law as gentleman's profession: "No man should go into practicing of law unless he had the wherewithall to be able to practice and not exact fees from any client." Jack Hyman constitutional law professor, marvelous man; didn't grasp everything he put at them. On Saturdays had taxation taught by Al Mugel; Anecdote of Mugel chain smoking and students watching the ash on his cigarette. Importance of the contact between the practicing bar and the teaching faculty; con't to have fresh ideas to see what the questions are being asked. Ease of having law school downtown to get into court. Mistake of moving law school to Amherst. Ability to see excellent lawyers try cases, cross-examine witnesses and see bad lawyers in practice as well. Value of exposure to good lawyers in practice for training students. Mistake of moving law school; easy contact with many lawyers; grunt work for the court serving papers, etc. seeing essential part of law practice. Worked for Saperston's office in summers with Harry Wilcy. Favorite course? Torts with Jaffe and Dr. Lenhoff. Dr. Lenhoff was distinguished lawyer in Austria, came to US during late 1930's. Law school librarian, then taught conflicts and other subjects; Lenhoff struggled against difficult circumstances. Important to capture stories about Lenhoff's life from others. Practice courses? Yes, trial technique; No law review at that time; Phil Magner; Freddy Marshall, Pete Murrett; George Zimmerman; study groups? informal study groups; PLI course in NYC Lou Maxwell, Bob Hellerer; Murrett, George Pfeiffer, discussion after reading; Jim Garvey, Jim Gibbin; Herman Loonsk. Three or four women, J Pedersen female grad. [note: no female J grad listed in class of '49]. Students mostly from Buffalo, a few from Rochester, hard to recall from outside WNY. Least favorite class? none. Liked school generally. Travel to other schools; Elderhostelling.

Keywords: Alden, Carlos; Amherst Campus; Anecdote; Areas of Scholarship; Attrition; Buffalo Law Review; Choice of Law; Choosing UB Law School; Class Composition; Classes; Deans; Eagle Street Campus; Faculty; Faculty / Professors; Fondest Memory; Hyman, Jacob; Intellectual Tradition; Jaffe, Louis; Law Courses; Law Faculty; Legal Education; Lenhoff, Arthur; Location; Mugel, Albert; Murrett, Pete; Peers; Practitioners and Faculty; Student Culture; Study Habits; Torts; Women; Women and Gender

Subjects: UB LAW AS STUDENT

Segment Synopsis: Morris Sacks an arsonist, building on Delaware he burned; was captured and convicted; was a concentration camp survivor, lost family; came to United States; JC puts on probation on the promise that he go to Florida and stay out of trouble, which he did.

Keywords: Bench; Significant Cases

Subjects: PROFESSIONAL EXPERIENCE

Segment Synopsis: Differences in law school then compared to today, one important difference was location; his experience much closer to what lawyers do but also what the law does; the expansion of the role of the law school due to new legislation in place, discrimination law, environmental, copyright law, patent law in the forefront, important issues. Basic problems: evidence, torts, contracts, personal property, tax, personal corporations; basic traditions spread from that. How do you think Law School prepared you for practice? UB did very well; learned good theory, basic foundations, hard to learn practicum there; specialization of law; need for practical exposure to the courtroom. What was the reputation of UB Law School? As a small law school, not nationally known but national law schools recruit from UB. Were there any women law students, how were they treated? Women were well treated; women were much different than those today; can't recall any that went into practice. [note: at least 3 listed in class of '49] Were there any law students of color? Several: Jim Robinson, he was city court practitioner; poor student, not a vet; remembers being part of moot court team and well liked by students.

Keywords: Class Composition; Discrimination / Prejudice; Environmental Law; Ethnicity / Diversity; Intellectual Tradition; Law Students; Location; Moot Court; Practitioners and Faculty; Reputation; Robinson, Jim; Satisfaction; Torts; UB Preparation; Women; Women and Gender; Areas of Scholarship

Subjects: GENDER; LAW; UB LAW AS STUDENT; UB LAW FACULTY; PROFESSIONAL EXPERIENCE

Segment Synopsis: Took a summer course in NYC for bar; no local bar test, went to Practicing Law Institute in lower Manhattan; stayed at the Henry Hudson Hotel on 57th St.; very hot; important to take bar refresher course. Worked as a claims agent for the Travelers; rec'd notice in November he passed the bar; went to work defense litigation firm John Weaver; tried cases in city court and in Lockport--civil cases; anecdote of one case. Recalled back to Marine Corps service in 1952, in Marine Reserves; new rules of military code of justice went into effect 1949; married in summer of '52, recalled Oct. '52; moved to Cherry Point, flew a little but concentrated on law there, tried cases in Military court; returned in 1954. Advocates for a Secretary of Peace to promote peaceful resolutions to conflicts. City was doing a lot of condemnation work which he helped with Abe Volken (?); worked with Elmer Stengel, good lawyer; worked for a small firm, took criminal assignments, no payments except with a murder case--$1500 flat fee, took some cases; wide background in law; got into politics; lived in University Heights (18th ward) ran for supervisor against incumbent and lost; made a few positive steps. Interest in politics? respect for FDR and Truman; Commie scare, red infiltration; How did he campaign? door to door; ran for assembly and lost. In 1961 became US Attorney--Peter Crotty was chairman and recommended JC; respect for Crotty, urged JFK's run; Good voice for party, important role of committeeman; apathy today.

Keywords: Bar Admissions and Exams; Buffalo History; Career / Gender; Cherry Point; Communism; Community Involvement; Criminal Law; Elections; Elections / Political History; Employment / Jobs / Wages; Kennedy, John F; Law Firms; Legal Education; Litigation; Military Court; NY, New York City; Post World War II; Practice; Roosevelt, Franklin Delano; Specialized Training; US Attorney; Values; Accomplishments

Subjects: CAREER: MILITARY; PROFESSIONAL EXPERIENCE; CAREER: LEGAL

Segment Synopsis: Became US Attorney in 1961 while JKF was president until 1967. Calendar much different--few drug cases, had auto theft, robberies, tax prosecution; staff small--7-8 lawyers in Buffalo office and 1 in Rochester. Buffalo office: Charlie Crimea, Ed Maxwell, Ted Zulkavitz (killed in auto accident) and Eugene O'Connor (?) and Don O'Connor in a wheelchair (due to polio)--had been in Alaska, lost use of right hand and used left, took care of all the civil stuff--foreclosures, Dept. of Agriculture, etc.; Followed Neil Farmelo as US Attorney; RFK Attorney General, Buffalo Unit 1st to have Organized Crime Unit--organized federal agents and local law enforcement agencies to cooperate. Wanted to have all members on same floor for close communication as one unit; agents also had offices close by; Magadino Family; Curtin left in 1967 for bench; unit continued into 1970's very successfully. Personal contact with RFK, in role as US Attorney General was excellent and very positive; JC went to bench in 1967; LBJ takes office in 1963, RFK remains as Attorney General, opening on the bench--recommends JC for judgeship; RFK recommends JC for judge, Johnson names Curtin judge--series of fortunate events; no trouble with Senate confirmation. Senate hearing before Senate, Chairman of judicial committee was Senator Eastman; JC's family goes with him for confirmation; Senator Javits conflict with RFK; Can't take the politics out of the process, but good system of checks and balances; NY Court of Appeals are appointed, others are elected--provides checks and balances; best left to the contest.

Keywords: Appointments; Elections / Political History; Farmelo, Neil; Government jobs; Kennedy, John F; Kennedy, Robert; NYS Court of Appeals; O'Connor, Dan; Organized Crime Unit; Peers; Perceptions; US Attorney; Accomplishments

Subjects: CAREER: LEGAL; PROFESSIONAL EXPERIENCE

Segment Synopsis: As US Attorney--significant accomplishments: criminal: the Organized Crime Unit and in the civil area, the Kinzua Dam and negotiations with the Seneca Nation; Details the civil case of the building of the Kinzua Dam and treaty obligations to Seneca Nation: right to condemn land under treaty, and give easements on treaty land, 10-year easements (10 times out 100 years water would only get to a certain level) Went to 2nd Circuit then, Supreme Court denied but didn't write on it; work done on valuation of property, tried 50 or 60 cases. Don O'Connor tried most--time consuming; Portugal wanted to buy B26 Bombers from US under treaty w/ condition that they not be used in Africa (large colonial holdings), part of NATO defense; Portuguese decided to get B26's (WW II remnants, kept outside Phoenix) Had them retro fitted to hold machine guns; got pilot John Hawk to fly planes Arizona to Buffalo/Rochester, Newfoundland, across Atlantic to Azores to Portugal, then to Africa. Customs Agent: Gene Pine observed planes and became suspicious and investigated that this was going on. Needed permit to get planes out of country, these planes were going out without permit; Broker for planes was a French Count, also ferreted Piper Cubs across the Atlantic to Scandinavia and England, appeared before Henderson and was allowed to make another piper run to Scandinavia; CIA involved, CIA rep sent here Dennis O'Keefe--waived privilege and gave what they had, denied involvement; Curtin tried case himself. Martin Caidin expert witness for defense, aviation expert, ran airline from Haiti to Florida, had theory, no facts; Ed Bronsky represented the Count; acquitted by jury trial on technical violation of securities/customs law; State Department concerned about relations w/ Portugal. CIA involved, CIA rep sent here Dennis O'Keefe--waived privilege and gave what they had, denied involvement; Curtin tried case himself. Martin Caidin expert witness for defense, aviation expert, ran airline from Haiti to Florida, had theory, no facts. Deal w/ media as US Attorney; in all cases, the best way to handle it was to be up front as possible. Media difficult to deal with--want to sum up case in a few words, prepared a statement that was concise and fairly summed up what was done. How long as Federal District Court Judge? Since 1967. Significant legal cases in WNY, JC disagrees that Arcara has more significant case--abortion clinics; Interviewer cites Love Canal and School desegregation case.

Keywords: Advice; Bench; Career / Professional Experience; Kinzua Dam; Media; Portugal; School Desegregation; Significant Cases; US Attorney; Accomplishments

Subjects: CAREER: LEGAL; PROFESSIONAL EXPERIENCE

Segment Synopsis: School desegregation case lasts? Henderson had it first in 1962, died in 1964; trial in 1964 he sat as judge; innumerable meetings about buses, cafeterias, traffic flow, school start; lack of violence in regards to Buffalo process; Eugene Reville and Murray saw it coming and had a plan; Implementation committees brought people into the schools; principal makes all the difference in the school through leadership; left a mark on affirmative action cases in Buffalo.

Keywords: Bench; Henderson, John; School Desegregation; Significant Cases; Accomplishments

Subjects: PROFESSIONAL EXPERIENCE; CAREER: LEGAL

Segment Synopsis: Evolution of technology and the impact on the practice of law; JC participated in one of the first computerized trial in WNY--Love Canal trial; sheer volume of documents--technology used to indexing documents but did not include details of document; had to look at actual document. Today, all the documents are displayed onscreen; Important for all to be able to view same document at same time; time savings in court. The attorney can go back quickly to retrieve testimony and reach resolution. Trials are more complicated and environmental ones even more so. National Fuel case, is National Fuel the successive and be held responsible; large case, computers help with case. When did JC start using computer technology? How hard to make the transition? Typewriter, carbon paper, then xerox, electric typewriters, now computers; computers are still in very early age of development; he enjoys it, likes learning new technology. Changes in practice of negotiation; Video teleconferencing, 2nd Circuit has arrangement w/ certain places in State, Rochester, Buffalo; financial burden for lawyers to travel to NY; Video conference with prisons--helps, saving in money, travel time.

Keywords: Accomplishments; Computers / Technology; Love Canal; National Fuel; Significant Cases; Career / Professional Experience

Subjects: CAREER: LEGAL; PROFESSIONAL EXPERIENCE

Segment Synopsis: Why students dropped out? 1946 class had many veterans, older students, married w/ children; Law School harder than expected, how are statutes interpreted. Classmates become discouraged. Students today vs. then? all excellent; his contact with SUNY Buffalo students, can stand up to grads from any place. Disappointed by the move of University to Amherst; campus should be in center city; examples of universities in heart of the city, benefit to students from exposure to city. Nils Olsen idea of new courtroom that can be used; Mark Farrell will use in Amherst, other magistrates will use; Marvelous for Law School to have interrelationship with public, students and practicing lawyers. Tries to stay in touch with law school, associates with faculty; learns from students and profs. Positive and lasting effect. Experience at UB matches more prestigious University; national influence--has grown but still mostly a local law school. Positive contacts with law school. Navy marine corps training in Minneapolis, borrowed lawyer's car, and at Canisius rode with Jack Heffernan and Bill Heffernan. Jack bad driver, took short cuts, fender benders led to stops at city court. Influences him to law school

Keywords: Attrition; Caliber of Students; Choice of Law; Class Composition; Continuing Role; Graduate / Professional Training; Heffernan, John; Intellectual Tradition; Law Students; Legal Education; Olsen, Nils; Practitioners and Faculty; Student Culture; UB Law School general; Amherst Campus

Subjects: PROFESSIONAL EXPERIENCE; UB LAW MISCELLANEOUS; CAREER: LEGAL

Segment Synopsis: Interested in politics growing up in South Buffalo, Fitzpatrick, Peter Crotty; ferment in South Buffalo with politics and the law. Calendar revolution in civil cases, was auto cases, now civil rights, women's rights; decrease in Dyer Act cases; Railroad cases--few RR cases now. Advice to law clerks practicing law: be on time, answer phone, be reliable, fair, courteous, aggressive but not personal, be prepared. Know the details; Loss of civility in the legal profession, times have changed, things have impacted on our society; lawyers are human, some are just miserable. Etiquette; Judges have role as leader on courtroom; obligation to be well-prepared; Care with pro se litigants; changes in procedure from use of computers technology--streamline process. Prospective law student--reasons for UB law? Something to having ties to community; advantages of Buffalo Law school, good education and ties to WNY community.

Keywords: Bench; Buffalo History; Career / Professional Experience; Choosing UB Law School; Community Involvement; Computers / Technology; Judiciary; Law Students; Laws; Legal Community; Neighborhood; UB Preparation; Advice

Subjects: CAREER: LEGAL; UB LAW MISCELLANEOUS; PROFESSIONAL EXPERIENCE

Segment Synopsis: Lawyers should keep up to date in particular field but also in faults in the law--cracks in the foundation; Curtin's commentary on the problems of the drug laws as they exist--in its entirety. Make drugs available to people. Should not put users in jail or use users to convict those selling. Rockefeller Drug laws have not slowed flow of drugs. Should look at problem, listen to people, have national forum. Law and Lawyers have responsibility to look into this. Tougher laws not the answer. "Home of the Free, land of the brave" more people than any other country in jail. Begin process to change, knows of serious problems in current system; Jails; enforcement of the law. Debate with interviewer and JC regarding drugs vs. alcohol; moderation vs. excess; Cigarettes; instead of jail, should be provided opportunities in education social services, clinics, help to prevent them from going into jail. Social problems not criminal problems. Billions spent on jails, much less spent on help--social services.

Keywords: Career / Professional Experience; Drug Laws; Laws; Legal Ethics; Legal Topics; Rockefeller; Advice

Subjects: PROFESSIONAL EXPERIENCE; CAREER: LEGAL