Hon. Kathy J. King ’84

Kathy King Audio

Tue, Jul 25, 2023 9:56PM • 00:01:00SUMMARY KEYWORDS

law school, judge, experience, new york city, mentors, years, moot court competition, gala dinner, attorneys, ub, queens, law, montserrat, award, career, lawyers, clerked, buffalo, student, court

SPEAKERS

Kathy King, Liz Kraengel

Liz Kraengel 00:02:00All right, so good morning, Judge King. My name is Liz Crangle. I'm the president of the UVA law Alumni Association. And it's my pleasure to be interviewing you this morning. And congratulations on receiving the 2023 Award from UB law Alumni Association for your conscientious and diligent performance in the judiciary. Congratulations.

Kathy King 00:03:00Thank you so much. It's a pleasure being here this morning and an honor to be the recipient of this award. 00:04:00So just for starters, I've got some background questions for you as we kick off your interview. So if we could start with you telling us a little bit about where you grew up. 00:05:00I grew up in New York City in one of the five boroughs, Queens. And Queens is, although it's in New York City, and most people associate New York City as being an urban environment. Queens has a more suburban feel. I grew up in a block with two family homes, and a very close knit community. We knew everyone on the block. Mr. Mrs. Barnett, Mr. And Mrs. Harper, Mr. And Mrs. Wilson. And it was a very it was a it was a community that are supporting each other and protecting one another. 00:06:00And as you were growing up in Queens, what was your family dynamic? Like? What was the background? Who were you living with? How did how did your family come to Queens? 00:07:00Well, my, it was my family consisted of my mother, father, and my sister and I, my mother and father father immigrated to the United States from a small island in the British Caribbean being called Montserrat. And when I say small, it is a very small 29 square miles. And my gosh, yes, yes. And they raised my sister and I in Queens after having worked my mother first as a domestic when she came to this country, and then as a nurse's aide, and she retired from the New York City Health and Hospital System, after working as a nursing nurse's aide for around 30 years, my father was a clerk in one of the city agencies. 00:08:00Wonderful. Do you have any family still in Montserrat? 00:09:00I have only a small number of family members. Unfortunately, Hmong, Surat was experience a volcano. It's about Cano, a volcanic eruption. It's about panic islands. And in the 90s, there was a volcanic eruption causing a significant number of the population to migrate to Great Britain, since the island is a British colony. So only a very small number of family members remain there. But one of my happiest memories growing up is visiting Montserrat. We my sister and I would travel there in the summers, and I still visit on a on a pretty regular basis. 00:10:00Wonderful. And in terms of an bringing us more current in your background. I understand that you are married, who is your spouse and how did you meet? 00:11:00My my spouse, my spouse, and I met at City College in the 70s and both our students in a program called the urban Legal Studies program. And that program was a legal program designed to assist individuals who would normally not have the opportunity to attend law school to give them this topic. communities. So the program consisted of three years at City College, and three years at New York Law School. I met my husband. At that time, however, we were, we were just acquaintances at that time, he had just been discharged from the army. And I was a I went to college straight from from high school. And let's put it this way, our maturity levels were different. So, it wasn't until 10 years later, that we reconnected at a dinner sponsored by the 100 black men, where Thurgood Marshall was the keynote speaker. And he recognized me 10 years later, and the rest is history. 00:12:00And what is your spouse's name? 00:13:00Edward, Edward king. 00:14:00And and I understand that he also has a career in the law. What does he do? 00:15:00Well, up until January 1 of this year, he was a solo practitioner specializing in real estate and commercial litigation. And as of this year, he ascended to the bench that civil court mentioned Brooklyn. 00:16:00Wonderful. Congratulations to him. Thank you. And did he continue on to the three year? Or if you met him at the three year program at City College, did he then go on to New York Law School? 00:17:00Actually, it's ironic, both of us did not complete the program. As as it was designed, he went on to law school. Washington DC at a school called Antioch law school. And I decided that the program did not expose me to the liberal arts, to the liberal arts, and I was desirous of a more well rounded experience. And as a result, I didn't complete the program. And instead, I graduated to the college with a degree in history, and then went on to the University of Buffalo school abroad. 00:18:00And I'll certainly have some more questions for you on that in a minute. But we will not hold it against your husband that he did not go to judge King, who were your role models growing up. 00:19:00My role models were my mother and father. They taught my sister and I, that education was the key to professional and personal advancement. And my father, clearly his philosophy was that not to embrace wary doubt or fear. And that by not doing so you would be able to achieve your personal objectives. 00:20:00I'm gonna pivot now and ask you some questions about UVA law school. To start. Why did you choose to go to UB How did that become your destination? 00:21:00Very simply, my parents didn't have the resources to send me to a private law school. And based on my research, you be offered a quality education at a reasonable cost. And that was the primary impetus for selecting UB. Had you 00:22:00visited the Western New York area or Buffalo prior to deciding to attend law school there? 00:23:00No, I hadn't. I hadn't visited but I will say that I I think that what the Western New York area where you be law is located is very conducive to academic studies, 00:24:00holed up in the library out of the snow, the trend. 00:25:00And unlike New York, it doesn't have a myriad of, of distractions. 00:26:00That's fair. And and do you have any particularly fond memories of your time at UVA law school, anything that sticks out in particular as being very memorable? 00:27:00I would say what sticks out in my mind is the collegiality that there was among students. And being from New York City, there was a there was a closeness with the students from New York City, we will we will all transitioning from a fast paced environment to a slower environment. And we share that common and we would commiserate with one another and support one another. As we as we went forward in law schools, 00:28:00were there any long standing friendships that you developed while you were in law school? 00:29:00Oh, yes. Oh, yes. They are several individuals from New York City that we have kept in contact with, I have kept in contact with over the years and won my relationship with Michelle Wong, who is from the city and we both have similar backgrounds, in that her her parents are also immigrants. So in addition, in addition, from in addition to being from New York, we had that in common, and we, after graduation, we stayed in contact, so much so that she became a member of my extended family, and is the godsend to my son. And I am the godmother to her daughter. I also do a Autry who is not from New York City, but from Buffalo. She and I have maintained a a wonderful relationship over the years. And it's probably because we we both stepped out of our comfort zones during law school to participate in the moot court competition, and that that experience bonded us for life. 00:30:00And you just mentioned that you had a moot court competition experience. What was what was that? Like? Was it a particular team? What was involved in that experience? 00:31:00Well, I, I have to say, that was a intimidating experience, because it involved me stepping out of my comfort zone and doing something something that I wouldn't ordinarily do and that is to, to argue to argue and present a case in front of a panel. The Frederick Douglass moot court competition is a annual competition sponsored by the Black Law Students Association. And in this in this competition, duet and I were were partners, and we traveled to Harvard Law School where the competition was being held that year. And I remember that all argument was pretty intense. And so much so that I do and I chose not to go to the gala dinner because we were just trying to recover from the experience. And the next one Morning. Everyone was looking for us. Why? Because at the gala dinner, do it and I had won the award for Best brief. 00:32:00And you miss the recognition that the 00:33:00we missed the recognition, but 00:34:00gratulations on best brief award. That's fantastic. 00:35:00Yeah, yes, yes. And you be embraced. That's when we returned. For the grass were on the front page of the school newspaper with a rider of the experience. 00:36:00That's wonderful. Judge King, I understand you participated in moot court while you are up last student. Can you tell us about your experience there? 00:37:00Yes. That was a very memorable experience. I, my partner and I do adore tree participated in the Frederick Douglass moot court competition. And, yeah, we had to travel from Buffalo to Boston, to Harvard Law School where the competition was being held. And DragonEye after the oral argument, which was particularly intense, very grueling. Ah, we went back to the room with the intention of going to the gala dinner. And as the evening went on, we decided that we're going to skip the gala dinner, no need to show it was. It was a long and it was a long and grueling morning, only to find out that the net only to find out that we won the award for Best brief. The following morning, the phones were ringing. People were wanting to know what happened to you. Where were you at the dinner. You missed your moment. And we return to Buffalo. Welcome by the law school community and honored by the Law School community on our victory, and our photograph was on the front page of the newspaper, as well as a write up of of the work. moot court competition. 00:38:00That's excellent. Judge king. And we talked about your moot court experience. Did you participate in any other kind of extracurricular activities during your time in law school? 00:39:00I, I did not participate in many other activities. I focus primarily on being a student. And this was the first time for me being away from home. So I, I have to I have to, I have to focus. And I had to transition. 00:40:00And I know we talked about it a little bit in your in your background section about your role models, and you mentioned that your parents were very much so your role models. Did you happen to know any lawyers either in your extended family are in your community? Do you ever had any exposure to legal professionals prior to deciding to go to law school? 00:41:00In my family, I did not have any exposure. However, I would say in my immediate community. I didn't know of lawyers. I also had the experience of interning in my junior year of high school with a with the first African American Supreme Court judge in Queens County, the Honorable Kenneth Brown. And that was That was a phenomenal exposure because judge, Judge Brown had had many firsts. He had served in the the assembly, he had worked as a prosecutor, and then he was elected to the match. So that was that was a great, great exposure for me. 00:42:00And were there any, was there any type of formal mentoring program or informal mentors, that that you worked with during your time as a law student? 00:43:00No, I, I realized now that that is what my career trajectory solely lacked mentors. I, at that point in time, IDE, know that mentors serve a valuable role they can they can help guide you, and help shape your career path. And I guess didn't know that. And it's probably because of, because I recognize now the value added of mentorship. Why I personally, am so involved in mentoring. 00:44:00And in in entering your career, immediately after law school, what was your first legal position? 00:45:00Well, I my first legal position was as a court attorney for a judge. And because I didn't have any mentors, when when everyone else was was interviewing. I felt that the interviews provided by the law school were too litigation centric. And thus, I I really didn't participate. However, it was a friend of mine, a UB alum from a private class that told me of this opportunity to clerked for a judge. And I, I pursued that opportunity. 00:46:00And what judging what port was that 00:47:00that I clerked for Judge Ross sparks. And that was quick civil court Queens County. 00:48:00And from there, where did your career proceed? 00:49:00From there I I got a position as General General Counsel to the New York City Board of Elections. 00:50:00And how long were you in that role? 00:51:00Oh, approximately six years. 00:52:00And what was your next position from there? 00:53:00I assumed a an administrative position in the agency as deputy clerk and that was basically a managerial operational position. But it was significant because I was operating the the the the office of the largest board of elections in the state of New York. 00:54:00And in terms of your path to your current position, was that somewhat of a springboard? How did you how did your career unfold in terms of becoming a New York State Supreme Court 00:55:00judge? That's a That's a good question. And I as I said, previously, I didn't really have mentors. However, I had a lot of good friends, friends who saw in me what I did. see in myself. They would say to me, you're a deliberative you're a good writer. You're, you're you're very judicious type person. You're, you're a fair person, you don't rush to judgment. And most of all, you're compassionate. You would make a good judge. Why don't you go for it? And that is how I made the leap, the leap to pursue a career on the bench. 00:56:00So judge King, how was it that you decided you wanted to pursue a career in the judiciary? 00:57:00Well, as I said, previously, I didn't have any mentors, however, I had really good friendships. And in those friendships, I had people who encouraged me to pursue a career on the bench. And I have to say, I'm looking back now. Those individuals, so in me, what I did not see myself. This, my, my, my friends would say to me, you're a good writer. You have to temper me, your face, your deliberative, you're analytical. And most of all, you're compassionate, you understand people. And I recognize that I had the skill set to be a good a good judge. Not only based on what my friend said, but based on my own professional experience, working in the courts. I, I was fear and I working with attorneys, I recognize that being fair, is the most important thing to them. Even if even if a a party or an attorney is on the losing side of a case, if they get a fair shake, and opportunity to fully present and try their case. They, they respect that. And they develop confidence in the court. A lot of times I will tell her tell a party, hey, the Ducks are not all lined up. Or I don't know if this case should go to trial. It's not the best. You don't have all the elements of a course of action here. And if they discern that you, you are an individual who have who has read their case, understand the case and understand the law applicable to the case. They develop confidence. And nine times out of 10 they will accept your recommendation. 00:58:00So judge King, I have a couple of questions for you about your involvement with the National Association of Women judges, I understand that you were selected to chair the New York mentor team. What does that involve? 00:59:00That that was an opportunity that was totally an unanticipated for me. But I went it was presented I immediately accepted it. I'm a lifelong member of the National Association of Women judges, and Awa whose mission is to provide equal access to justice and to assist them those in our society who are marching. And when it was explained to me that an Afghan judge was living in New York City and needed assistance, resettling. I immediately responded to the opportunity because of because it was consistent with the mission of an AW, Jay. what it entails is identifying individuals, other judges, who will assist with the psychologic psychological, professional and personal transition of Judge Verona. Judge Verona is the Afghan judge living here in New York City. And how that is done is we have monthly zoom calls, where I will get volunteers to conduct tours in different courts, so that Judge Verona could learn about the operations in different courts. I've identified volunteers to explain to her the DV court, that is the court where a judge is presently assigned as a court analysts. And I've also got volunteers who just provide a listening ear and share with Judge groaners how life here, life is here in New York City. So it's poured, coordinating a sisterhood of support for for Judge Verona him in New York City. 01:00:00And I understand that. I think it was just last month, you addressed the United Nations Commission on the Status of Women with respect to that work, what was that like? 01:01:00That was an amazing experience. Absolutely amazing. One of our members of na WJ J is the president of a non governmental organization. And that group that NG G O hosted the a panel on access to education for girls and women in Afghanistan. And I was one of the panelists. And I have to say it was a learning experience. Because I I have to get I have to research and get insight about the history of women obtaining an education in Afghanistan, and how the United States, the United States intervention allowed women to to get access and upon withdrawal of the United States. Women were prohibited from pursuing an education or for working for that matter. So it was an amazing experience, not only to learn about that historical backdrop, but also to know that I was given a a global platform for this issue to be heard. 01:02:00That's wonderful. Um, do you foresee continuing that work in that role? 01:03:00Yes, I do. I I recently attended the media conference of an AW J and at the conference, I met a Afghan, a female Afghan student, who I am now going to connect to judge Rona and I have been, I have been offered a number of speaking engagements regarding my work on the on the mentor team and my brand and what an AW, Jay has been able to accomplish with Judge Rona. So I foresee this work this valuable work continuing. 01:04:00And Judge King, I am a final question for you, I will ask what advice do you have for lawyers who are just beginning their practice? 01:05:00That's a that's a million dollar question. I'll start off my answer by sharing a little anecdote. A good friend of mine, who is a member of the Judiciary highly accomplished, received an award and after the award ceremony, I approached her and and said, I want to follow in your footsteps. And he paused for a moment, looked me in the eye and said, No, you don't want to follow my footsteps, you want to create your own path. And that was it, that was eye opening. Because it made made me realize that each of us has our own individual path. So my advice to young lawyers is to find your path. And you find your path by having a mentor us having that person who you are comfortable speaking with. And sharing ideas with and confiding to, because there are those times as a lawyer, that you may find yourself in an awkward or uncomfortable or a not so good situation, I'll put it that way. So you need someone that you could confide in, in, in those delicate moments that there's delicate times. I would also encourage young attorneys to identify your career path, your your your your career path and your practice area. And once you do so, immerse yourself in it fully. As as you read my bio, I was recently assigned to the medical malpractice part in January of last year, and one of the things that I've done to immerse myself in this practice area is to become a committee member of the New York County Lawyers Association, medical malpractice committee. By doing so, you you learned I would also recommend that young attorneys join Bar Association's that reflect their interests as well as their practice areas. I must say one of the one of the reasons I joined the NSW J. J is because I'm a travel I love to travel. And na w j has two conferences a year in different cities throughout the United States. So that was a personal interest of mine, but also my interest is coming compatible with the mission that na WJ represents. And finally, I would encourage young lawyers to network networking is so so important. You meet colleagues in your practice area outside your practice area Are you you get an opportunity to discuss cutting edge trends in the law, you get an opportunity to discuss cases that you may be working on, you get an opportunity to learn about jobs and other other areas that may be of interest of your interest to you. So I would say creating your path 01:06:00joining Bar Association's net net networking, I would encourage young attorneys to do those things to enhance their careers. 01:07:00Well, that's all very sage advice, and I think even applicable as we're going forward beyond our young lawyer years, and judge King, I want to thank you for your time and talking with us today. And I look forward to celebrating you at our annual dinner on May 11. Congratulations again. 01:08:00Thank you