NYS Senator Shelley Mayer ’79

Shelly Mayer

Tue, Jul 25, 2023 00:01:00PM • 00:02:00SUMMARY KEYWORDS

law school, people, buffalo, work, attorney general's office, law, politics, ran, day, job, ub, involved, lawyer, big, mentors, women, experience, lived, yonkers, family

SPEAKERS

Shelley Mayer, Heather Giambra

Heather Giambra 00:03:00It's my pleasure to welcome you today, Senator Mayer, I thought we would get started by asking you to tell us a little bit about your beginnings in Yonkers, New York, where you were born. And tell us what it was like growing up just outside of New York City in the 1950s and 1960s.

Shelley Mayer 00:04:00Well, thank you, Heather. You know, it was a fascinating time. My father was a lawyer. He was also active in politics. So no big surprises about my path. But my mother had not gone to college. She had grown up poor, my father had grown up, basically, upper middle class. And they met, of course, at the beginning of World War Two, and they got married. And after the war, they came home and they have these four children. We were very much sort of a family of that time. late 50s, early 60s, I was the youngest of four children. And every night, we ate dinner together, and we talked about current events every day. And I grew up in that kind of household where I was encouraged to have an opinion. I had opinions about politics and government and other things. And we all manage to love and coexist pretty well together a really until the 60s came. And that was a sort of game changer in the life of suburban families, I would say. 00:05:00Tell me about the game changer 00:06:00in the 1960s. Well, in the 1960s, a first place, the war in Vietnam started. And I was as a young girl in elementary school, against the war, my father had run for office multiple times he had lost every time he was a Democrat. In those days, the suburbs of New York City will Republican. And my whole family was against the war. And I was against the wars as a student in junior high school and the rest of the world had it was it really in a different position. So that was one thing, there was tremendous unrest in the streets between no anti war movement, the beginnings of the civil rights movement. And in addition, my sister who was a little bit older than me, was very much into being rebellious. And she stopped going to school and eventually started living sort of a different life and moved out and dropped out of high school. So you know, was the 60s and people forget now that we're in a tumultuous time, there have been prior tumultuous times in American life, and the 60s was one of those. 00:07:00I think that's good for us to remember for specially for those of us who weren't around during the 1960s. It is always good to remember that. This, we're not experiencing anything all that new. 00:08:00No, and it was equally tense. Heather as it is today. And in the sense that people were reluctant to share their opinions and opinions led to conflict. And if people should remember, this is not the first time it won't be less time. 00:09:00But that's a good, good point to make. So you mentioned that your father was a lawyer and that he was involved in politics while you were growing up. Did he talk a lot about his work? You know, with the family around the dinner table? Did you did you sort of know what was going on in his practice? 00:10:00I did. He was involved in both sort of a general practice in New York City. He commuted every day. But he also was involved in other kinds of issues, particularly being involved in politics. So yes, we were involved with him. And there's a funny story that in 1960, when I was seven years old, he ran for the state senate also. And he hired an elephant to walk down a one of the parkways in Yonkers to show that the Republicans had raised the tolls. And that was the reason you know, the elephant was the Republican symbol. He didn't win that year was the year that Kennedy, John F. Kennedy ran for president. But we knew when in fact, recently, I saw some of his comments, because when Kennedy ran, there was a sort of a big deal about having the first Catholic president. And my father was very outspoken and saying that, as long as people kept their religion and the governing separate, that someone's faith was really irrelevant to who we elected and that was a great he was quite courageous in his stance on matters of principle, and I learned a great deal from him and my mother in that respect. 00:11:00You mentioned that your mother had not gone to college, did she work outside of the home or was she did she stay at home and and take care of the family? Primarily, 00:12:00she stayed at home until I was about 16. She and my grandmother were there. Every day my grandmother lived sort of around the corner there, you know, she was very involved in our lives and the PTA and in her synagogue, and she was very opinionated as well. I mean, she, she was extremely smart, but just not educated. And another thing people should remember, you know, going to school doesn't always guarantee that someone is the smartest person in the room. She was a tremendously empathetic person who could relate to any person. And I learned a great deal of the skills that later came to serve me well from, from her very loving, empathetic style and very non judgmental about people's experiences. And she always had a feeling that, you know, it was really there, but for the grace of God that we weren't as poor as she had been, although she had a beautiful childhood, which she felt very good about, but she recognized the privileges we had as middle class family. 00:13:00So growing up, what were your what were your hopes and dreams about the future? Did you Did you always plan to follow in your father's footsteps? Or did you have other thoughts about what your future might hold? 00:14:00Well, I was always very conflicted between two big areas in my life I wanted, if not to be a lawyer, probably to be a lawyer, I, I was fascinated by lawyering. And the fact that you could use these skills in so many ways. And so I was very interested in politics, government law, that was all very appealing. At the same time, I love to dance. And I was very motivated about maybe being a dancer, and they were very conflicting paths. I tried to pursue them both for as long as I could, and then ultimately gave up dance. But I love both I loved art, and music and dance, particularly. And I was fascinated by politics and government and really expressed my voice. Early on, my parents explained or very much encouraged my expression of my own voice. 00:15:00And you probably had to express your voice being the youngest in the household if you want to be heard. 00:16:00Yes. And we're allowed group, you're absolutely. 00:17:00That's how my family is as well. Yes, it's 00:18:00a good way. 00:19:00So um, when you just when you graduated from high school, you did you start out at the at the University of Michigan? Is that where you went right from high school? 00:20:00Yes, I went there, in part because they had an excellent dance program. And it was an excellent school. And I went there for a year and a half. And I had a wonderful education. But I dropped out, as as people did, at that time, more frequently to come to New York City and try to become a professional dancer. I came back. 00:21:00You were still dancing, then 00:22:00I was still dancing. Yes. And I wanted to dance and pursue sort of politics. And I was trying to find a path for both. So I came to New York. I lived in Manhattan. And I tried and I did it for about a year and realized as good as I was, I probably wasn't good enough. And you know that I was very motivated by the path to follow politics and government and law. What kind 00:23:00of dance were You were you most interested in? 00:24:00Oh, I love jazz and Broadway. And I also did ballet. And I went back to do ballet. Ironically, when I got to UB law school, I found a teacher in Buffalo and actually continued to take classes there, but really all kinds of dance, and I did my best. And it was just a fantastic experience. But I had to acknowledge that it was unlikely to lead to a future that was as fulfilling as is I thought it could be in law and government and politics. So then I went to UCLA. Because my sister lived out there, my oldest sister, and my friends were there. It was far away. But I went in and I finished and got my degree in political science. 00:25:00So you got a degree in political science at UCLA? Were you were you intending to go to law school with that degree? Or did you have other thoughts about what you might use the degree for? 00:26:00I was conflicted about getting a master's degree in, I think, in political science was very, I was very interested in political theory and things. And I can't remember who talked me out of it. Maybe it was my parents. Maybe it was my sibling. Someone said to me, you know, really, law school is the better path. And so I came back to New York. I worked for a year for a film company, which was fascinating, another fascinating experience. And then I applied to law schools. Did you apply Where did you apply for law school? I applied to other schools in UB, but I up particularly at that time had a very strong reputation. for public service, public interest, the things that I knew I would be I really want to pursue. So it was a high choice, but I, I got on the waiting list. I did not get admitted right away. And I remember driving up there and trying to talk myself, talk them into admitting me and I was successful. 00:27:00That was very, very brave of you to go. Make your case. And they probably 00:28:00she's gonna be nicer. Yeah, you have to go make your case a lot of the time. And I think these were lessons I learned and took them to the rest of my career. Sure. 00:29:00So tell me about your law school experience. What? How big was the class back then? What was the makeup of the class? You know, what, what was it like being in law school? 00:30:00Well, I was in section three. And my, I think our cats was the in charge of our section. I lived in the dorm. I had a wonderful roommate at the first and then I moved into North buffalo, our section. I had some wonderful friends who later became part of the group that I'm still involved with called my mother's group, which was women of that, largely of the class or spouses of people in my section. I was very motivated to go to the library early like at 730. I think it opened to do reading because I was more focused and concentrated. But I loved the classes. I was there for the blizzard of 77 which was a very serious really major blizzard. And I remember we were stuck in our house in North buffalo watching routes. That's the time it was like law school was a great experience. I wasn't the greatest student I was highly motivated. And and the rest of the students were two people were attracted to come to UB it was a really dynamic law school to be in. 00:31:00Did you socialize primarily with with other law students or their families? Or did you have much interaction with with students from other other schools at the university or mostly the law students? 00:32:00I didn't really know anyone. I became fast friends with the people in my section. And I had a relative that lived in Erie. So for family purposes, I remember taking everyone in my little Volkswagen bug to Erie for the Jewish holidays. But I didn't know anyone else. And these are my law school classmates became my very good friends. And some of them as I said, I've been friends for at least 40 something years. 00:33:00Were you involved in any social activities during your law school days? 00:34:00Yes, I was I got right involved in a number of the activities. And one of which is the way I ultimately met my husband who came here after me at UVA law school. But at the time, which was about 1978. The one of the groups that I was involved with was in talking about gay and lesbian parenting, which at that time was really quite not viewed as acceptable that gay and lesbian parents could raise these wonderful kids because they had so much love. So I was some of my friends, we had a like a workshop on this. And as the person who was straight, I was sort of there to make sure that we attracted other law students to participate, not just members of the gay and lesbian group, I feel it was called. So I was there. And to talk about the power of good parenting. This was really was a long time ago and credit to my colleagues who were gay and lesbian because they were willing to be upfront and I was sort of the straight person for them. 00:35:00Very interesting. What about other law school activities? Were you on the Law Review? 00:36:00I wasn't on the law review. And I'm not sure I could have gotten on a lot of you. I wasn't the greatest writer. I, I was very interested in some subjects, and less so in others. I had relationships with many of my professors who I remember to this day, I mean, Jim Adelson for labor law, and I think I had Schlegel for civil procedure. And I think the Dean Hedrick taught a class as well, I can't remember, but I wasn't more of you. I was involved in clubs I was in I don't, I was trying to remember the name of it. There was like a Women's Law Group. I was involved with some of the progressive Politics groups, as they said, the balsa wood for the Black Law Students, I was very much, you know, supporter and would attend their events. I was I cared deeply about the same issues that motivated me. And you'll be provided this just really wonderful diverse opportunity even then, in 1978 7778 79, to be exposed to people with different ideas who were active in things they cared about. It was, it was a very dynamic time, I was extremely fortunate to I always hold it. And I was so fortunate to go to your law school. 00:37:00Did you have any mentors? While you were in law school, I'm sure your father was a huge source of mentoring and guidance for you but but outside of your father, who are your mentors while you're a law student. 00:38:00I don't know so much mentors. But I was thinking today of some of the people that shaped my early career as a lawyer, particularly practicing in Buffalo, during law school, and then when I got out, so Barbara Han Chu, who was one of the leaders of the progressive movement, and in Buffalo at the time and abroad, one of the most significant cases about police interaction, then in the 70s, she was living in Buffalo and was very active, I got to know, I was in the clinic. And I don't remember the name of the clinic, and we were assigned to the Lackawanna legal services. And I spent some time there as well, and the clinic directors and other people who are involved in the practice of talking to people, you know, serving people in a very one to one way I was very motivated about that, then, and I think that actually turned into sort of what my career came to be as combination of interpersonal relationships and translating it into policy. That's, that's what we did I in, in these experiences in clinic and in practice. 00:39:00So it sounds like your, your, what your thought you were interested in going into law school, and what you actually wound up doing coming out of law school, matched up fairly well. 00:40:00I'm very lucky, they did match up quite well, really quite well. And I had, you know, these experiences that taught me so much from being in these clinic. I as I say I worked in a law firm in downtown Buffalo while in law school, and I ultimately went theory after law school, where I was really thrown into what representation of regular working people is all about. 00:41:00What type of what type of work did you do at your first job at the at the private practice law firm? 00:42:00Well, they was mostly a labor law firm, and they represented largely men and women who worked for the trains or they're in the union of the of the trains. And then also bus drivers. And so, you know, unfortunately, those times, the women who came into firms were assigned to family law issues. So immediately, I started going to family court, you know, every day I used to say 10, and two, because the women in the firms ended up doing the family law matters. And that was very challenging for me. I mean, first place, the emotion of it, the challenge of it. Some of my colleagues who were in the family or business for a long time, were were not happy to have young upstarts entering the business so that an employment discrimination I did those were the two areas that the firm really just dumped on my lap and was so generous about allowing me to do right away. 00:43:00Were there other female attorneys at the firm when you went to work there? 00:44:00Well, there was a woman who had been there who was an outstanding family law lawyer, who I think is how I heard about them because I think she was involved in some of the women's law activities at UVA law school. But then she ultimately left the firm and moved to DC. And she was quite a path breaker at the time and being an outspoken there were other outspoken women attorneys in the Buffalo law scene. Some of them were more into the establishment of the law sector, you know, went to the Erie County Bar Association. I was interested in starting something new and I actually became the founding president of the first buffalo chapter of the women's Bar Association when I was still living there because I thought it was time for a different kind of approach. 00:45:00That's excellent. And there is still a very strong chapter in Buffalo today. 00:46:00I'm thrilled about that. 00:47:00Do you? Do you have any involvement with them still with the women's bar? The chapter in Buffalo? 00:48:00Yeah, I'm a member of the chapter in Westchester where I live. And I came back to one of their dinners where they honored past presidents and everything I can do to support them. And of course, a number of my friends and colleagues, who were my last two law school friends, still are involved. 00:49:00That's an interesting fact that I didn't uncover when I was when I was preparing to talk 00:50:00with you today. So tell me about you said you met your husband in law school? How did the How did the two of you come to meet each other? Well, 00:51:00I had a friend who was working in the admissions offices as a job was my classmate, still a friend. And he told someone else that when my husband was applying that there was another sort of labor interested person working that was in law school. And so my husband, Lee Smith, who is from Western New York, he sort of came to that first time I was mentioning where we were talking about gay parenting, in order to sort of see what I was like. And then we both started going to the library at 730. In the morning, to do the reading. He was a much better student than I was. And he ended up working for Dean Hedrick and having a job with the dean and continue to help the Dean on some of his own work and research. And 00:52:00so common interest in labor law that got you together. 00:53:00So what 00:54:00ultimately prompted you to leave that first job in private practice and take the next step in your career, Senator, 00:55:00I, I started a lawsuit against the clerk of the Federal District Court of Western New York because he told the pregnant secretaries, they're not to come back after they had a baby. And I brought a case against him and it got the attention of Hugh Scott. Hugh Scott, at that time, was head of the Attorney General's office in Western New York. And he later obviously became a magistrate and a very distinguished member of the bar. And he heard about it and I think he said that, he thought my he appreciated my courage as a former US, Assistant US Attorney. And I reached out to him, he reached out to me about working in the Attorney General's office in Buffalo, as a public advocate, and there were two of them. And eventually, I did get hired there. And I went to work for the attorney general's office in Buffalo, which was another under Bob Abrams, who was a very thoughtful, brave, smart lawyer and a great attorney general. 00:56:00So what type of work were you doing at the Attorney General's office? 00:57:00Well, we were really looking for cases that we could bring in the public interest. And the first big high profile case I brought was against the Holiday Inns Corporation, which fired seven buffalo waitresses, basically one day when Holiday Inns, corporately decided to change its image and get rid of sort of the older women waitresses who knew what everybody liked, and get the young sexy waitresses. So these women who had worked there for all these years, got fired. And we brought a case. And we went on Phil Donahue show with the women went to to Chicago was very exciting. We did not win the case because of standing issues. But we really put the pressure on holiday ends. And I think we achieved something there. 00:58:00That's great, what exciting work. And in good work to get us where we are today. unnecessary work. So after you left the Attorney General's Office, did you go back into the private sector, or did you were you still working for the government? 00:59:00I stayed with the Attorney General's office. My husband got the job as the counsel to the Department of Labor with Governor Mario Cuomo. And so we we needed to move back to New York. So we move back and I was able to get into the Civil Rights Bureau of the Attorney General's office in the World Trade Center. And I worked there for a long time and then I had multiple other jobs with the Attorney General's Office of increasing responsibility and got to bring really exciting cases in New York City and around and including buffalo in the Civil Rights Bureau, and that is head of the Westchester Office of the Attorney General and the real estate finance Bureau starts I used to do lobbying for the Attorney General, and then into a senior management role with the Attorney General. Wow. 01:00:00And you were there to enter the 90s. With the Attorney General's Office 1994. 01:01:00I stayed 12 years, so 82 to 94. And then when the Democrats lost both for attorney general and for governor, my husband and I both were out of a job. That's the way it goes. 01:02:00I guess you have to expect that in those jobs, but it's never pleasant. 01:03:00No, it but you know, what, you learn to be resilient. And I was able to get a job for a one session up here in the legislature, as sort of a special counsel to the Senate Minority Leader, who at that time, was David Patterson, who later became the Governor and I learned a good deal about how the legislature worked. And it was a Special Council on Women and Families. And it was a great job, and a learning lesson about what you need to do to survive and to thrive here in Albany. 01:04:00Yeah. You work for Continuum Health Care Partners is the Vice President of Government and Community Affairs for for a period of time. Tell us about that. 01:05:00Well, after I was here, for a year, I heard about a job that paid much more. And that was a had a path forward, which was to help. At that time, St. Luke's Roseville, which was a two site hospital on the west side of Manhattan, deal with its community politics and be its work on their Medicaid and Medicare reimbursement in Washington and Albany. So it continued to have a presence in Albany and in Washington. At the same time, I learned a lot about community politics in complicated places, like Upper Manhattan, and we had a very challenging time. There was lots of racial tensions in the decisions that the hospital had made. And it was a great opportunity to go out and really learn to listen to people who disagreed so passionately, and have tried to find solutions. And we found a number of solutions by by going and instead of staying in the hospital, getting out of 01:06:00thin air. Tell me a bit about your work at Columbia University in the national state attorney general program. 01:07:00That was a great opportunity to work with a program that was committed to helping attorneys general throughout the United States, figure out how to proceed on issues that were complex. And I was involved in the the both labor law and some of the civil rights issues, and bringing together some of the experts, national experts on how to use attorneys generals power, in the most creative and effective way. Some attorneys shells were more creative than others, we want to share that knowledge. It was a great opportunity worked for the former attorney general of Maine. He was a brilliant lawyer, very bold. And it was a wonderful opportunity to be there. So so many smart, smart people way smarter than me. But they didn't all have the practical experience in the in the real world of sort of what what works in politics and attorneys General's Office. So I was fortunate to be here. 01:08:00And am I correct that your next step after after Columbia was to run for the New York State Assembly? 01:09:00That's right, I ran for the assembly. I thought I was running against a weak Republican. But they made a change. And they brought back a very popular, very moderate Republican, who was the brother of a very important senator who had a big name. And I ran a very vigorous campaign I lost. But he subsequently changed parties became a Democrat. He's now the mayor of Yonkers. And we have a very good relationship to shows. You don't always have enemies or friends in politics. It's a shifting landscape. 01:10:00So when were you first elected to the assembly? 01:11:00So then he ran for mayor in a 2012 and created a vacancy, and I ran in a special election with his support, and I became Assemblywoman for just the district that were represented just the city of Yonkers, and not all of it because it was too big for one assembly district. And I was there 2012 till 2018 When I ran in a special election for the state senate. 01:12:00And that the seat that your hope that you hold still today, correct, although it's 01:13:00been redistricting. And it's not the same as it was then in terms of what communities I represent. But yes, I written the prior, the senator became county executive of Westchester created a vacancy, and I ran again in this special election. Very Very tough one. 01:14:00The special election? Yes, it was extreme. Tell us a little bit about the difficulties of, you know, politics and running for election and what were some of the I can I'm sure we can imagine, but what were some of the biggest struggles for you in campaigning and, and being out there like that? 01:15:00Well, when I ran in that special election, that was really sort of the pivotal moment whether the Democrats were going to take control of the state Senate in New York, if I won, it was a sign that the Democrats were likely to win. So there were just millions of dollars poured in and resources against me and some for me, and all kinds of extremely ugly things. I have a pretty thick skin after this many years in this business. But you know, it was hard, you had to really be resilient and make up your mind that it didn't matter what people said, I went to my supporters and I said, This is who I am, this is I think you will find me to be extremely ethical, responsible person. And you'll just have to really, believe me, that I am who I say I am not who they say I am. And I also was a district that was quite different than my assembly district involve very different communities, some were far more affluent, far more, sort of sophisticated. And they didn't all know who I was, either. And I had to get to be seen as a viable candidate. So I work very hard. I put my my heart and soul into it, and I won decisively must have been a big really, it wasn't really, but you know, it takes a certain a certain qualities to want to be in this, and to decide that it's worth it. It's not for everyone, you have to really get over things. I always say I have like a five minute rule, you know, five minutes to feel sorry for yourself and then get on with the work at hand. 01:16:00Another good rule 01:17:00to remember, sometimes it's more than five minutes, I would say. 01:18:00It's okay. So I mean, it sounds like really all of your jobs leading up to running for for public office, we're really preparing you for that, you know, in the in the Attorney General's office and working for David Patterson, and getting all that exposure and all of that, you know, inside information about about political life and life in Albany. Was that, was it your intent to run for public office all along? You do hope that you would do that? Or did did it just kind of come up differently? 01:19:00Well, one thing I was interested in running for judge, I stuck my name in the process to run for judge a few times. And that was a beginning of the experience of running for office and seeing whether I was comfortable in that arena. But I think it was a combination. In my experience of being very much a an optimist about American democracy, I really believed I could make a difference even in the face of disappointments and unfortunate events. So that was part one, I really, I am a truly such a patriotic person, I believe that we have this enormous opportunity to make a difference. And secondly, I'd like to people, you know, it wasn't a I'm not afraid of people disagree. I'm very comfortable dealing with people who have different opinions. And I was able to bring the experience of what I call the regular people are not all involved in politics, and they don't pay attention every day, what they know what what they care about, and the vast majority of them, whatever party they're in, or whatever ideology, they want the right things for their families, and they want their parents to be cared for. And they want their schools to be good. And I was always able to find common ground with enough people who didn't always agree with my views, but saw me as a legitimate person who really wanted to do their best. And I really credit UB for helping shaped me to bring these things together because it was a law school. And it remains a law school that encourages those kinds of instincts to to use law, together with policy and politics in my case to make change. 01:20:00So looking back over over your professional career, and it doesn't sound like you're anywhere close to winding that up. What do you consider so far to be your greatest professional achievement? 01:21:00Well, I think I'm winning for the Senate and being being viewed as a leader here in Albany and, you know, receiving this award as a distinguished alumni. You know, I have carved out a path and a reputation that I'm pleased with and I think reflects my values. And, and I have the most unbelievable staff that is also committed to these values. You don't, you don't get to this on your own. So that's one thing. And secondly, I've had great mentors and great people that I learned from, I made mistakes. And then I learned from them, I have the doubt the the benefit of having a very positive attitude about our politics and our democracy. But I'm very proud of something that we have done here as the chair of the Senate Education Committee, which is we fought for a good 15 years to get the money that was owed to every school district, including I would know, the buffalo School District, finally to be paid the foundation aid formula. And this year, we are in the last tranche of getting that money paid. That was, that was a true battle with governors and everyone else, and we wanted to get every child to get enough money in their public school system so they could begin to get what they deserved. And we have achieved that it's not perfect, but it was a tremendous victory. And there's a lot of other people, including my leader and friend, Senator Andrea Stewart Cousins and majority leader who you know, really just nose to the grindstone and got this done. 01:22:00Speaking of the mentors who have helped you along the way, what's the what would you say is the best career advice that you have have received along the way? And who gave you that advice? 01:23:00Well, one, one piece of advice that I give to others is don't You don't need a year straight course, look at me, I my career went like this up and down, I got you know, I lost my job. Democrats lost my husband lost job at the same time, and we had two little kids. And, you know, but you can keep reinventing yourself along the path. If you find things that motivate you, and you want to work hard at and you're willing to work hard, you You did nothing, nothing is an excuse for not working hard, that you You must do your homework, and you must take it seriously. So I think that was part of the good advice that I got along the way, just sort of be resilient, take disappointments and turn them into opportunities. Also, build relationships with trust, you know, there's very little value in burning your bridges here in Northern one day, you're in the minority one day or in the majority, one day, your person is Governor, then the next person's governor. You know, all of these are relationships that you nurture through disagreements and agreements. And becoming personal and becoming, you know, sort of in this ugly tone that has now become part of our politics is not an effective way to get things done. We're gonna all have to work together, we're all gonna have to live together. We all have to love each other. But we've got to work together. 01:24:00We need more of that we need more people to feel that way. More politicians, I should say to feel that way. I was wondering as you've been talking about your parents and watching your career development, seeing where you are today, you said your father ran for public office? Are they still with us? Or were they still here? 01:25:00When you when you were elected to the Senate, my mother was here when I got elected to the assembly in 2012. My father had died in 2011. And she she was very pleased and my siblings, you know, my three older siblings, always who still fall obviously found my career and take great pride in it know that how much was shaped by my parents, principles and ethics and beliefs and values. And so, you know, we all we all acknowledge their presence, even though they're not with us anymore. And I have a beautiful pictures in my office of my father on the elephant. 01:26:00Oh, that's great. 01:27:00And so at the other end of the spectrum, you mentioned your children. You said you had two little children at the time you lost your job. Do you have three children total right and our own children to graduated from law school became lawyers, neither of them practice law either. They they went off and did other things. One is in a law firm and she does some practicing of law, but also it works on big healthcare issues. And my son works on big issues involving a young people and college the ability to pay back college loans. And my other son is not not a lawyer, but we encourage them to go to law school we still think law school is one of the greatest preparations for whatever you choose to do. It teaches you how to think 01:28:00most certainly, and your husband is 01:29:00it he's still practicing as well practice law. He both runs a business is and is very involved in solar policy, national solar policy in terms of sustainability. And so he doesn't practice law, I still keep up my, my CLE and all that I'm very committed to still being a lawyer. 01:30:00Because you never know what might happen. Right? 01:31:00You know, and it's good to be a lawyer. It's good to. 01:32:00So Senator, I'd like to talk a little bit about what connections you still have to the law school and or your, your, your friends, people that you met in law school, obviously, your husband who you married, but do you still keep in contact with other classmates? 01:33:00Well, I do I have a group, we call it our mothers group that we started when we first had babies, and most of them were either in my section or their spouses were in our section. And in 1982, we all had our first child living in Buffalo. And we got together every month at that time, without our husbands and without the babies to sort of, you know, be be each other's best friends, who we still meet about once a year, 40 years later. And they're, they're all very dear to me. And we've gone through so much together. So I feel very lucky to have had that mother's group from Buffalo and UB law school. And we've also here had him in my office, a number of UB law students as interns who have been terrific additions to our team here. And both, both my husband and I have occasionally come back to the law school either for a reunion, or for the opportunity to speak at the law school and we feel extremely loyal, and connected to UB and look forward to being there in person. 01:34:00So UB has a formal mentoring program. Are you Are you familiar with it? Or have you ever had the opportunity to mentor we have a formal program where one ELL students are assigned a mentor? Have you have you participated in that at all? 01:35:00I haven't, and I'm totally open to it. I would say the challenge of being a seven day a week, Senator is that we we have limited time to do other things and when we try, but I would love the opportunity to do that. 01:36:00We'll keep you in mind. We're always looking for mentors.