Mark G. Pearce '78

Segment Synopsis: The interviewer asks where Mark grew up, went to high school, and started thinking of going to Law School. Mark replies that he was a product of NY state, born and raised in Brooklyn, went to Erasmus Hall high school (which produced alums like Barbara Streisand and his favorite, Mo Howard of the 3 Stooges), and went to Cornell as an undergrad. He encountered bad weather there, which took as he went to the UB Law School afterwards. Interviewer asks if Mark had any immediate or extended family members in law, Mark says "not really"--his parents were from Jamaica with no high school or college education, but they did put a high value on education and pushed their kids to achieve. He pleased the family to pursue law. His passion was art and they thought it was "cute," so they envisioned him becoming a lawyer. Even though he thought it was his own decision, his parents heavily influenced it. Mark notes he never really had any encounters with lawyers growing up, though he had some friends of the family who were lawyers. He never really saw what they did. He does have family members who became dentists and doctors. Mark majored in Political Science at Cornell. He was in the College of Arts and Science, somewhat surprising since Cornell was known for its industrial relations school. He met a lot of alumni who just assumed he was in IOR and wanted to "claim" him. The interviewer asks if Mark and his parents always thought he'd go to law school or if it was something that developed over time. Mark answers that he had some challenges as an undergrad, because he liked fine arts. He took some fine arts courses and did well, but since he didn't have educated parents or grandparents, no-one told him he could do both fine arts and a major. He's given a lot of information he didn't know as a college student to his daughter, though he hasn't had to tell her much because everyone knows so much thanks to the Internet. After this digression, he notes that while he enjoyed history and his poli-sci courses, when he approached his senior year he took some courses in constitutional law, civil rights, and Supreme Court decisions such as Gideon and the Scottsboro Boys. He went to law school thinking that criminal justice was the best for him to defend victims of imbalance in the system. Consequently, he wasn't interested in prosecution.

Keywords: Children / Grandchildren; Choice of Law; Choosing UB Law School; Family; Role Models; Undergraduate Education; Value of Education

Subjects: EDUCATION; FAMILY HISTORY

Segment Synopsis: Mark considered staying at Cornell but had a bit of "Cornell Fatigue." He was interested in going back to New York and remained on NYU's waiting list even while he went to UB. He went to UB because the financial package was very nice, it was a "smaller venue," and he had the ability to make ends meet. The interviewer notes that he'd spent no time in Buffalo before coming to the UB. Mark says his experience was the same--he'd never been to Buffalo before, he just showed up in his beat up jalopy, a 1964 Ford Country Squire with over 100,000 miles on it. Friends of his parents at Cornell in veterinary school were nice enough to put him up while he went apartment hunting. This was a new experience for him because it was the first time he experienced failure (to find housing) due to discrimination; since his voice didn't reveal his ethnic identity when he showed up to find apartments after calls they would suddenly be "taken." The interviewer asks if Mark's experiences with racism confirmed his determination to go into criminal justice. Mark notes that it convinced him that redress in the courts was the way to go, but not yet criminal justice specifically. Mark notes that his notion of the law school was entirely different from the reality--it was in Amherst, not Buffalo, and Mark was coming from a "picturesque, storybook campus in Ithaca" to this place in Amherst surrounded by swamp and a lot of empty space. At the time, it was O'Brien and Baldy Hall and not much else, the pathway from the parking lot to the school with a lot of buildings was a duck pond with a marsh. He had to check his directions to see if he didn't end up in Attica by accident! When he arrived, the building was new and the first floor lecture hall had purple rugs (they used to call it the "purple pit). He showed up in jeans with a briefcase and got many strange looks. Mark notes he saw one or two people from Cornell there--he wasn't close with them, but there was some recognition.

Keywords: Amherst Campus; Choice of Law; Choosing UB Law School; Discrimination / Prejudice; Experience as Student; Financial Support; Law Students; Location

Subjects: EDUCATION; UB LAW AS STUDENT

Segment Synopsis: The interviewer notes how difficult the first year of law school is and asks what Mark remembers of it. Mark tells a story of how on his first day, he was talking to people. The first person he met was obnoxious, and so was the next person, and the next after that. He then asked himself, "wait a minute. Does this mean lawyers are jerks, or only jerks go to law school? And what does that mean for me?" After a while he did find people who had a degree of mutual toleration and became friends with a woman he eventually married, along with Vicki Pryor, an active alumni and former CEO of Savings Bank Life Insurance. She, his wife, another friend, and him were an active study group. Mark loved Civil Procedures with Adolph Homburger, who was alive then. Homburger was an amazing professor reputed to have written 90% of the CPLR. He made learning Civil Procedures interesting. Deanne Seymour taught torts, was an adjunct professor. On their first day, she walked in, slammed her books on the table, pointed at him, and demanded the facts of the Falgraff case. She told him, "I don't care what you think, I want the facts of the case!" Still, she softened after a while, she wanted her students to have a taste of what the courtroom was like.

Mark's least favorite class was criminal law, which he thought he was going to law school for. He didn't like the professor at all or how the class was taught, it seemed to be biased. Mark discovered, however, that justice had to be redefined in his thought process. He thought it was everyone playing as dirty as possible, and you'd find equity in the dirt, and learned that one's station in life determines whether or not you'll get justice in the system. It was naive of him not to realize that, and it was a devastating revelation for him. He had a bit of a career crisis before he had a career--he wanted to be a criminal justice lawyer, but found he didn't like it. "Providence lighted my way," as he said, and got an opportunity for work study with the Labor Relations Board the first year UB offered labor law.

Mark went to the NLRB, investigated cases for them, and "fell in love" with the work. He describes took labor law from the late David Koshieri and being fascinated by the various aspects of labor law, ranging from African-American history to United States and labor history generally. He found it very compelling. Mark notes his parents had a 'bottom line' relationship to his legal pursuits: If they could tell everyone their son was a lawyer, they were fine with it. It would have been even better if he was a judge, but he wasn't having that conversation! Labor law wasn't entirely foreign to them either, as some of his extended family was involved in it. His own mother was a member of a union, and he and his siblings got braces and glasses on a union plan. His father was also in an airline worker's union and got free trips to Jamaica due to that. Janette was very influential in Mark's pursuit of labor law. One he discovered he wanted to go into labor law, UB's law school was a "treasure trove." The biggest treasure was ?. He offered several seminars like negotiation and collective bargaining and Mark tried to take as many as possible. When he graduated he had the opportunity to work with the NLRB in Buffalo, for which he was very grateful.

Keywords: Caliber of Students; Classes; Department of Labor; Experience as Student; Intellectual Tradition; Law Courses; Law Faculty; Law Students; Student Culture

Subjects: EDUCATION; UB LAW AS STUDENT

Segment Synopsis: The interviewer restates what Mark said about finding new enthusiasm for labor law. Mark points out that "as romantic as that sounds, the reality is that I wanted to get back to NYC." He was job-hunting in labor car with little success, as Jimmy Carter was president, the gas shortage was at its height. He was at the top of the NLRB's hiring list thanks to tyhe good recommendations he had from the Buffalo office. Buffalo was very low on his list, but he wasn't getting other offers from NYC's NLRB offices. The interviewer notes Mark faced discrimination in finding a place to live and wonders if he experienced the same in getting a job. Mark says that he can't say for sure if he saw that as a problem, but notes he didn't spend much time trying to get a private sector position in Buffalo. He was aware that racism was ever-present; when he graduated from law school there were 2 blacks who had associate positions in Buffalo law firms, and the majority practicing in Buffalo were affiliated with public government. There was nothing he saw that was glamorous in law for African-Americans. The interviewer apologizes for interrupting Mark and brings the conversation back to the subject of finding a job. Mark's mother had a couple of rooming houses, allowing him to stay in NYC. He became a job hunter in the daytime, a handyman at night. He thought any job would be great, so he applied to some positions in the DA's office, even though he had an aversion to criminal law and prosecution. The interviewer jokes that "beggars can't be choosers." If Mark knew what he knew now, he would have just walked in cold to the Brooklyn office of the NLRB, but back then it was just trial and error. He was lucky enough to pass the bar the first time and got into the Buffalo NLRB office on the ground floor. Buffalo was ready and willing to take him. He was downstate the entire summer and returned to Buffalo that September, in 1979. He started with Region 3 of the NLRB. He first thought he'd stay for 3 years, after which he'd get a transfer or a job elsewhere. 15 years later, he's still here. The interviewer notes that in the 15 years Mark has spent year, the Presidency has changed hands from Carter to Reagan to Bush, and wonders if the change in the presidency, especially from a Democrat to Republican administration, changed what the NLRB did in Buffalo. Mark replies that benefits for federal employees ebbed and flowed, and that they were actually treated better under administrations with a conservative view of labor law. The NLRB had a lot of work in the early 80s, since the steel mills were still in Buffalo. There were elections and other labor matters which kept him and his colleagues at the NLRB pretty busy.

Keywords: Career / Early; Law Firms; Practice

Subjects: CAREER: LEGAL; PROFESSIONAL EXPERIENCE

Segment Synopsis: Mark is most proud of his ability to hone his skills as a litigator. His understanding of the law started to gel, he was in fact a prosecutor prosecuting violations of the National Labor Relations act. His ability to hold his own against top litigators of major law firms in these settings gave him pride. He developed into a district trial specialist, where he traveled around the country investigating cases. Reflecting on his activities and successes, he thinks he's made some difference in the justice he first thought of, even if he didn't "set the world on fire." After 15 years with the NLRB, Mark worked on a large case in New Orleans involving a shipping company. He successfully prosecuted it for unfair labor practices, came back to Buffalo to find that Lipsitz Green had an opening for someone experienced in labor law, and joined up with them. Mark notes that Buffalo, given its size, doesn't have many Union-side law firms and Lipsitz Green was one of the largest. The Labor Law department was headed by the respected Richard Lipsitz. Mark had crossed paths with Richard a few times at the NLRB. He didn't suffer fools, "if you didn't know what you were doing, he let you know." Mark also worked with Jean Salisbury, who recently died. At Lipsitz-Green, he had the opportunity to learn private practice; it was good he entered private practice in his early 40s because he didn't "freak out" like younger attorneys. On the other hand, he never had to deal with billable hours before. The interviewer notes that mark's life is now "guided by six minute increments." Mark acknowledges that it was a significant adjustment, and also notes he had to get used to how clients' perceptions of him would be influenced by his race. There was and still is a lot of provincialism to be dealt with, but most of Mark's clients accepted him after he proved his abilities. It was exciting for Mark to make his own firm. He had two colleagues at Lipsitz who agreed with him that the direction they'd like to take labor law was a little different than what was available at Lipsitz-Green. They sketched out business plans when they sat down to eat together and hunted for office space at night because "word gets around" in a smaller town. The interviewer notes that private practice involved many new skills, and Mark agrees, noting that the process was "extremely terrifying." However, for the first time in his life, he was one of the founding partners of a business that was his. He and his partners could decide which clients to take and manufacture their own image on the labor management landscape. He was fortunate to work with people he respected. He thought this would be the last chapter of his life, but there would be unexpected surprises.

Segment Synopsis: Mark was always active with the AFL-CIO and other union organizations, and it was lucky Barack Obama won the election, and let it be known he was looking for people to chair the NLRB. Mark didn't think he'd get a position, but he "let it be known" he would be looking for a position. For a time, he didn't think about it after that and continued to practice with his firm; he "set the world on fire" when they started and his firm really made a name for itself among the unions, representing something new and different in Buffalo's terrain, partially because its founders and associates were male and female, of various races, and looked as diverse as their client base. Eventually, however, he received a call from Washington saying his name was getting traction. Mark got a phone interview with three people from the White House, talking about labor law, what he'd been doing, and how the governor of New York (Spitzer) appointed him to the board of appeals. Mark talked about some of his work and particularly interesting cases, such as a year-long strike at a baseball cap company in Buffalo. He called friends in Washington, told them the phone interview went well, but admitted he might have been at a disadvantage since it was a phone interview rather than a face-to-face one in the Beltway. They said he had nothing to worry about. He then got another call from White House personnel asking him questions about "certain measurements." He said he'd love to answer them but wondered if there was an "interim conversation" to be had, and thus got another call from "so-and-so." That's how he got to where he is today. The interviewer asks if Mark had an understanding of what people in DC did while he was at law school. He answers that he didn't have a clear appreciation of what they did even after several years as a field attorney in Buffalo. The agency is unique because it has a prosecutorial arm manifesting in regional offices and a direct link to the board that is limited to authorizations for injunctions and representation cases. It wasn't clear how it worked to Mark, and everything was pretty new to him. When he first had a chance to see how everything worked "behind the curtain," it was and still is very fascinating. The interviewer talks about living in DC for 17 years, and when he first arrived he'd pinch himself because he visited the city in elementary school and couldn't believe he could see the Washington Monument, the FBI building, and the White House. He asks if Mark felt the same. Mark says it was a rush, and still is, though he doesn't gawk at things like the FBI building anymore, and when the streets are clogged by a black motorcade it's a lot less interesting. Mark notes that he and his wife were neutral about their daughter going to law school, but she said "no way in hell" to being a lawyer. She would have made a good lawyer, though, since she's a great debater and her analytical abilities are "sublime." Still, she's more interested in the arts, working at MSNBC with the hopes of becoming a television writer. Mark gives advice to students thinking of going to law school. He wants students to have a good reason for going. He notes it's so often the case students talk about law school as a "backup plan;" even his daughter did this and took the LSAT in her senior year "of nervousness." He thinks you do yourself a disservice if you haven't fallen in love with the law, since there are so many lawyers but not as many jobs, and even many employed lawyers would rather do something else. Law is so multifaceted, so going down one path might be dismal and disheartening, where you get no passion or excitement, while other paths can make one feel like they're not even working since they're doing what they want to do. Mark chose a path that's sort of in the middle; sometimes he doesn't feel like he's working but a lot of times he does. The individual needs to assess what their desires are and what is fulfilling to them. Also, going to law school doesn't mean one should practice law, it can sometimes be a good exercise for those who want to do something else. Mark admits he isn't as involved with the UB alumni group as he should, but he still goes to Buffalo fairly often (at least twice a month) since his wife has a house there. He's good friends with Dean Matua and keeps in touch with people like Ilene Fleischmann and others in the faculty. He thinks the law school has been very nice to him in his post-graduate career. The interviewer notes that Mark has been just as good to the law school and thanks him for his time and patience, Mark replies that it was his pleasure.

Subjects: CAREER: LEGAL; PROFESSIONAL EXPERIENCE